Gay Marriage

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 5/18/2004, 12:29 pm

Yes but the point of the debate is whether there should be an ammendment to ban gay marriage. Since our basis for not wanting gay marriage is religious, and not allowing it, then the two have to be mixed.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 5/18/2004, 12:34 pm

Its true they do have to have to be mixed in this issue but everytime someone brings religion into the discussion its shot down by the old "church seperate from state" arguement so frankly i'm not gonna bring religion into this discussion when debating againts someone elses views. However if they want to debate my point of view i'd like them to argue from a religous stand point not a political one.

Thats just me though.

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 5/18/2004, 2:10 pm

My $.02, 8 pages too late:

We should get rid of the legal term "marriage" altogether, and start calling that legal entity a "civil union" for EVERYONE. Then if the churches/synogogues/mosques/whathaveyou want to ban gay marriage in their religion, fine, that's their right. Civil rights are civil rights, and they should extend to everyone.

Also, this would lead to such wonderful phrases as: "Will you union me?"

As for polygamy (or rather, polyamory), that's a different issue. I'm not going to argue about whether it's moral or not, but there are practical concerns. When a person is legally married, they get survivor benefits, joint taxes, etc. Virtually all legal benefits of marriage are specifically set up for TWO people. We would have to change them considerably to make room for three or more people, and I'm not sure how this could work out. And if we say civil unions are for "any two or more people", what's to stop, say, cults of 50 or more people all getting legally married to each other? I don't know where we could draw the line...

modern psychokitty · Post by **modern psychokitty** » 5/18/2004, 4:19 pm

Aerin, would you do me the honour of unioning me?

:roll:

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 5/18/2004, 4:22 pm

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 5/18/2004, 4:27 pm

Why should Bush and his hoodlums be able to base their support on "marriage is the union between MAN and WOMAN"

Who's seriously got the RIGHT to say such a thing? The Bible!?!? :lol:

Seriously.......

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 5/18/2004, 5:38 pm

Yeah, and would someone please point out to me the Bible passage that says: "Thou shalt not allow the lesbians and the gay men to file joint tax returns!" Because I can't seem to find that one...

AnnieDreams · Post by **AnnieDreams** » 5/18/2004, 6:03 pm

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 5/18/2004, 6:29 pm

Joe Cool wrote:
everytime someone brings religion into the discussion its shot down by the old "church seperate from state" arguement so frankly i'm not gonna bring religion into this discussion

Neil down and obey.. wrote:Why should Bush and his hoodlums be able to base their support on "marriage is the union between MAN and WOMAN"

Who's seriously got the RIGHT to say such a thing? The Bible!?!?

My point is made.

No one on this forum will accept a religous arguement even if the issue is deeply tied to religion. Whether you choose to accept that fact is up to you though.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 5/18/2004, 6:33 pm

Was my statement supposed to show stupidity vs. your highlighted statement?? Ignorance??

Or am I backing you up dude? haha

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 5/18/2004, 6:38 pm

Your backing me up in the sense that whenever religion is brought into this topic its shot down as I said it would be. I'm not saying your ignorant, i'm saying its just a fact of life that religous arguements arent accepted in a non religous forum.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 5/18/2004, 6:42 pm

Joe Cool wrote:Your backing me up in the sense that whenever religion is brought into this topic its shot down as I said it would be. I'm not saying your ignorant, i'm saying its just a fact of life that religous arguements arent accepted in a non religous forum.

Aaaah ok.......I guess I just have a difficult time seeing any religious backing of the entire issue. Should every living person follow what the bible says??

No....that's why there are civil liberties. Should two gay guys who are Muslim be forced to subdue to "what the bible" says???

Nope.....hahaha this could go on FOREVER 'n EVER 'n EVER!

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 5/18/2004, 6:51 pm

Neil down and obey.. wrote:
No....that's why there are civil liberties. Should two gay guys who are Muslim be forced to subdue to "what the bible" says???

If they are serious Muslims they should because the Muslims consider the Bible a Holy book. Infact Muslims often study the Bible, and Muhammad himself makes many referances to the Bible. :nod:

Regardless your arguement is valid. While i dont completely agree with everything you say, I respect it.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 5/19/2004, 12:52 pm

Joe Cool wrote:
Neil down and obey.. wrote:
Regardless your arguement is valid. While i dont completely agree with everything you say, I respect it.

Thanks.....and I the same. I respect people that choose to defend the bible in this manner, but I guess from certain people (i.e. G-Dub) I feel that it's more a matter of being "closed-minded". I can't say homophobic because that's being irrational (completely, more so than I have been in the past) and a complete label that perhaps doesn't fit everybody.

I guess I have too hard of a time seeing why 2 men or 2 women shouldn't be allowed to be married. It's too complex. Go Mass.

Tattooed Angels · Post by **Tattooed Angels** » 5/19/2004, 2:24 pm

Joe_Cool,

I can understand where you are coming from. ALot of people who are brought up religious are lead to believe HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong.

It is weird but I listen to Howard Stern and there are actually people on there called the GOD HATES FAGS, folks.

I know people argue that Marriage is between a Man and a Woman for, lack of a better word, to have children and create life.

Personally I think people should be able to marry whoever they want to. Straight or Gay.

It is said that the first state to reconize a *same Sex* marriage is only legal in that state.

this issue is one that is very touchy on so many different levels. I am for *Same Sex* Marriages. Hey if you find someone who you want to spend your life with, that is a beauitiful thing. It is so sad that people put their perverse views on something as beautiful as that.

BTW, I saw Alanis Morrisette at an in-store yesterday.
Do you all remember her song * IRONIC*

there is one line that goes
"It's meeting the man of my dreams, then meeting his beautiful wife. "

she changed it to :
"It's meeting the man of my dreams, then meeting his beautiful HUSBAND"

I wonder if that is how she is going to be doing it throughout her tour.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 5/19/2004, 4:47 pm

Gail - I wouldn't be surprised the LEAST if she continues that line. I heard about it from a friend too. I think it's neat. I'm proud of her.

I guess the whole "religion" aspect escapes me because I have a lack of religious experience in my life thus far. I have no plans of making an extreme change. I'm one person that believes that you can "believe" even if you don't attend services or anything.

I dunno....but I won't and don't wanna get into that. I guess I really can't say much unless somebody throws something out that I can't play religion into :lol:

Tattooed Angels · Post by **Tattooed Angels** » 5/19/2004, 5:13 pm

Neil down and obey.. wrote:I guess the whole "religion" aspect escapes me because I have a lack of religious experience in my life thus far. I have no plans of making an extreme change. I'm one person that believes that you can "believe" even if you don't attend services or anything.

I totally know where you are coming from on this.

I am more spiritual, then religious. I am trying to take the good from all religions. I have been reading alot of different things on different religions.

I always felt that religion seems to pigeon hole people into only one way of thinking. I have friends and know people of different faiths then my own. In the end we are all the same. GOD LOVES EVERYBODY :love:

People think I don't believe in GOD cause I don't go to a house of worship. It is all BS to me. I believe strongly in GOD and have alot of Faith. I pray to God everynight, and thank God every morning I am alive.

Knowledge is power. Ignorance isn't.

modern psychokitty · Post by **modern psychokitty** » 5/19/2004, 7:57 pm

Neil down and obey.. wrote:
Joe Cool wrote:Your backing me up in the sense that whenever religion is brought into this topic its shot down as I said it would be. I'm not saying your ignorant, i'm saying its just a fact of life that religous arguements arent accepted in a non religous forum.

Aaaah ok.......I guess I just have a difficult time seeing any religious backing of the entire issue. Should every living person follow what the bible says??

No....that's why there are civil liberties. Should two gay guys who are Muslim be forced to subdue to "what the bible" says???

Nope.....hahaha this could go on FOREVER 'n EVER 'n EVER!

Actually, homosexuality really is forbidden for Muslims. There's a whole passage about a culture that was punished because of 'men who lay with men', and how God created men and women to fill each others needs. There's also a section where it talks about a deadly, incurable disease that will first begin with gay men, and then spread throughout the human race. A lot of scholars believe that it's talking about HIV and AIDS... creepy stuff. *shivers*

That's not the point, though. I just wanted to note that some religions are very harshly against it.

Since I can't argue this from a religious standpoint, I'm going to take a cultural one. Most of our laws in the past have been based on the culture. People were scandalised when women wanted to vote, when inter-racial couples wanted to marry, and when minorities wanted to be considered equal. It just wasn't the way things were done. But people struggled for it, laws were changed, and now we're shocked that people could have ever thought otherwise.

Now we're at another crossroads, and people are fighting against change yet again. It's going to be a struggle, but everyone will have to adapt. There are still people who are against everything I listed above, and that's their personal opinion. Maybe it's not politically correct (or remotely intelligent in my view), but they're still entitled to think whatever they want.

Quietly.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 5/19/2004, 9:59 pm

Well, I think Dubya should work on banning atheists from getting married, cause after all it's a religious thing! Who's with me?! What? No one?

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 5/19/2004, 10:03 pm

I love how I said I wasnt gonna bring religion into the arguement, and then everyone else goes and comments and argues about religion anyway. :lol: