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closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 9/12/2004, 11:03 am

Joey: I agree with you that Abortion should NOT be used at a form of birthcontrol, thats sick. But there are instances where its two responsible people, and the condom breaks, or the pill doesnt work, because they all have a slight percentage of not working.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 9/12/2004, 11:08 am

Then don't have sex if you can't handle what could happen because of it ...

If you go into sex willingly, knowing there's a chance the condom could break or the pill might not work ... then be prepared for that, otherwise don't have sex. Simple. As a responsible adult you KNOW before you have sex that something could happen and you could get pregnant. If you're a responsible adult then that should be an obvious decision anyway. Why should a baby die because you can't deal with it?

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 9/12/2004, 11:11 am

My opinion has always been, until the <b>fetus</b> can live outside of the womb, it is not a baby. As soon as it can breathe on its own, its a living thing. If it was actually murder, it would be against the law.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 9/12/2004, 11:14 am

I'm sorry but I have nothing to say to that without being rude.

Any highschool parenting class will teach you differently. If you've ever been witness to an ultra sound, and seeing that tiny life with arms and legs that's moving and breathing and kicking .. then deny that's a living being? That's just stupid. I'm sorry. It it clearly a baby. :neutral:

Even looking at that picture that was posted earlier. You can clearly see arms and legs and a tiny baby. I really have nothing to say to people that can't see that, it just boggles my mind completely.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 9/12/2004, 11:25 am

Soozy wrote:What about if someone has an abortion because they find out that the baby has some kind of disease or problem that will mean it's going to die not long after it's born and it will spend its life in pain?

Thats euthanasia then (mery killing) and that's illegal. It's a huge controversey though same as abortion. In my opinion abortion is murder, but it isn't my choice to make, all I know is that if I had a girlfriend and she became pregnant I would support her with whatever decision she made, of course I would talk with her about it, but in the end it is up to the woman to decide.

Soozy · Post by **Soozy** » 9/12/2004, 12:18 pm

It's not as uncommon as you'd think to have a termination because of the baby having serious health problems. I personally know two people who have done this and as women have babies later in life it's going to become more common. Here the tests for these problems are normally done at 17 weeks, not 20 as you said Joey and I'm pretty sure a friend of mine's wife had some new kind of test at 12 weeks. But I'm not sure where the 20 weeks thing comes into it anyway.

While I respect everyone's right to their own opinions on these matters, for me there's such a large continuum between these kinds of terminations (which I agree with) and terminations as a form of birth control by irresponsible teenagers (which I disagree with) through all kinds of areas in the middle and I'm not sure quite where the line falls for me.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 9/12/2004, 12:22 pm

The reason I'm saying 20 weeks is because here that's when the first ultrasounds are done. 4 of my friends had babies this year, the one being due in November and that was the same for all 4 of them. Even at 17 weeks there's most certainly a tiny life developing. Either way it's still wrong in my eyes. Under any circumstances.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 9/12/2004, 2:01 pm

Haha, for the first time I see eye to eye with you in this forum Joey.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 9/12/2004, 2:14 pm

Well there's a first time for everything right?

Children and animals are my only passions in this life. If I ever found out that I couldn't have children, that would be devastating. Then to think of people who have abortions and just destory so many tiny lives because the baby might not be "wanted." Breaks my heart.

Korzic · Post by **Korzic** » 9/12/2004, 3:44 pm

I agree with Joey here (I think) While the baby is still in cellular form, I dont see a problem with an abortion because its really just doing a delayed job of what the morning after pill is supposed to do.Once that little baby inside starts growing arms n legs n such, it should be sacrosanct.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 9/12/2004, 5:09 pm

I am just starting embryology in anatomy, and it is ABSOLUTELY amazing to see those cells splitting. Very early on, while it is still an embryo, cells are being defined as brain stems, appendages, organs. How could you not think that is life?

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 9/12/2004, 6:18 pm

i dont agree with the morning after Pill. if you happen to be pregnant at the time, it's just another form of abortion.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 9/12/2004, 6:30 pm

My thoughts exactly.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 9/12/2004, 6:30 pm

I'm not sure exactly how a morning after pill works. If it kills the sperm or the egg, I think that is fine, because the egg isn't fertilized. I wouldn't personally do it, but it's not really murder, it's just another cell in your body. But if the sperm has fertilized the egg already then that is just an early abortion.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 9/12/2004, 6:35 pm

The morning after pill destoys a fertalized egg by ruining its chances of implantation.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 9/12/2004, 6:52 pm

Ah. Good to know.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 9/12/2004, 9:05 pm

Killing:In self defense right, other: wrong

Stealing[/color]:Wrong
Discrimination:Wrong
Abortion: don't give a shit either way
Gays/Lesbians/Bi-sexuals: don't give a shit either way
War: maybe
Sharing: Right
Government Help: Right
Rich Helping The Poor: Right
Poor Helping The Rich: how?
Taxes: Good
Right to Death: Right, same goes for death penalty
Government Moderation: Right
Gun Laws: maybe
Violence to Achieve Goals: if words fail
Words to Achieve Goals: Right
Polygamy: nope
Public Healthcare: Good
Public Schools: Good
Stemcell use: good
Cloning Entire Humans: Wrong
Cloning parts: Good
Designer Babies: Wrong
Alcohol Use: Good, abusers lack self discipline
Marijuana Use: studies show it's getting more potient, no
Hard Drug Use: Wrong, user lack self discipline
Eating Meat: hell yeah!
Eating Humanely Raised Animals: hell yeah!
Eating Animal By-products: huh? you mean like cheese? hell yeah!

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 9/12/2004, 10:03 pm

Cass wrote:I am just starting embryology in anatomy, and it is ABSOLUTELY amazing to see those cells splitting. Very early on, while it is still an embryo, cells are being defined as brain stems, appendages, organs. How could you not think that is life?

your right it is life, but not human life. You should already have learned that when we develop we actually go through evolutionary changes at a fast rate. When we first start we are the same as an ape baby. And we are not concious, or in any way human.

Of course once we start to develop into human beings i'm much more wary to condemn pro-lifers. I'm not for or against abortion, but if it's still cellular i see no problems. Unless your a vegitarian, pacifist i don't see why you should either. And after all you support the killing of people in Iraq.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 9/13/2004, 2:03 am

your right it is life, but not human life. You should already have learned that when we develop we actually go through evolutionary changes at a fast rate.

I'm never going to learn this because I go to a private, LDS school. We don't believe in abortion and we believe that life starts the minute the sperm hits the egg, sorry.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 9/13/2004, 3:56 am

LDS school? What the hell is that? and why arn't they teaching gr. 12 biology?

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