ClumsyMonkey.net

If it is naturally occuring, and even naturally accepted in most cultures, when abrahamic thought is not involved, then this can only be seen as a naturally occuring event. And if God makes men and women, he also makes gay men and women. It is doubtful that God curses his creations from birth, unless you believe in Karma, which Westener's do not. Therefore if homosexuality is part of gods creation, or natures plan, then it must be accepted as acceptable. Because an ancient interpretation, that has been changed, and possibly tampered with/mis translated, that was not even written by God himself but by one of his human followers, who also suffered from human bias, says that something is wrong that does not nessasaily mean it is in God's eyes. Look at the actual physical evidence of God in our lives and it tells a much diffrent story.

This is why a growing number of monastics, and priests have changed their view on homosexuality.

Joe Cooler wrote:Mmhmm. I don't recall ever specifically arguing againts that point in the first place.

keep in mind i'm also arguing points with several other people

as i pointed out earlier Sinead made several false comments earlier

They weren't...false, just really not given a context so they sounded really off.

i suppose so, but if she thinks that homosexual behaviour has always been taboo in all cultures she is wrong.

i find this conversation very intresting i love my soc. and world religions classes, this is a good way to practice for tests


Ironic how i'm probably switching my major to Religion eh?


actually i have world religion tommorow morning, i should bring upsome of these points and debate them in class. We have a small class so we have lots of discussion. We've been discussing homosexuality in religion, primarily the Lakota.

No, see cass explained it to me. At least in her faith, they believe other non-abrahamic religions/cultures are people that originally knew about God and then steered off the straight and narrow.

If you believe in the whole adam and eve thing, it's the only way that makes sense. God created all people, apparently.

However, that can't be really used to discredit your point about natives, because obviously native cultures existed, no matter which way you look at it.

Does anyone have a comment about the post i made at the top of this forum? I read it over and it was poorly written. Plus i tried to make several points in one post, it was kinda a stream of conciousness writing style, so it doesn't work that well.

Oy. That's all I can say.

I'm not going to argue your point, because I've taken these classes too and I know how it is believed to be. I just have one thing to say abuot your earlier post. Yes, God made us. Yes, God loves us despite our mistakes and sins. That doesn't mean he loves our mistakes and sins. God made Hitler, God loves Hitler, I seriously doubt that he wants us to accept his murderous vendetta to millions of Jews. If you take a religious standpoint on the subject, or at least understand it, then you know that religious people are going to believe that homosexuality is not something God did to them, rather as something that went wrong somewhere on Earth.

But if they were proven to be created as such at the begining or early stages of their life? Is God really setting all these people up for failure? By the way, no one has ever actually shown me where in the Bible it says Homosexuality is a Sin, could someone actually give me a quote? I'm not trying to be a smartass i just actually have never seen the actual passage.



Anyways, I think it is fairly clear that Homosexuals do not choose this lifestyle, and with a number that large, or the population, possibly higher then already thought, it seems possible that this is some how a naturaly occuring thing. Or at least commmonly occuring. Yes, Homosexuals DO obviously choose to have sex, but Homosexuality is not just an action. It is a entire attraction and in some cases a lifestyle. Why would God bless a woman with the ability to Love, and then allow her to never feel mutual love with another person?

Anyways, last night while bored i tried to google some more information on the topic and stumbled onto The Jesus Christ Boards. Although there were 2 defenders on the board, the rest were obviously against Homosexuality. This in itself does not surprise me, and it's not the thing that irritated me. The way some of the "Christians" conducted themsleves and the use of "logic" was appaling. I gained a lot more respect for Cass and Taylor for at least being sensitive on the matter.

7 pages in and you guys haven't created a CM war. Good debates and good show of respect towards each other for the most part. Nice work y'alls!

I AM ME wrote:But if they were proven to be created as such at the begining or early stages of their life? Is God really setting all these people up for failure? By the way, no one has ever actually shown me where in the Bible it says Homosexuality is a Sin, could someone actually give me a quote? I'm not trying to be a smartass i just actually have never seen the actual passage.

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a women. That is detestable" Leviticus 18:22 (NIV Translation)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor theives nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanders nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)

And for those of you who think that verse is contradictory to a message of salvation, know that the passage goes on to say..

"And this is what some of you were. But you were wacshed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:11

***Note: The King James Translation essentially says the same thing if you're only familiar with that version.

The fundamental difference I suppose is that some people believe that this a tendency they are born with, and other believe that it is an influence of society.

I don't think it's anyone's decision whether or not they are more attracted to men or to women. Mainly because there are physical differences between certain parts of the brains of people who are attracted to women and people who are attracted to men.

closeyoureyes wrote:Goodness Gracious Me.

You really don't know anything about Religion, do you. Jesus is in the NEW TESTAMENT. There was also this thing called the "Old Testament", which documents life under God from the beginning of the earth until Jesus's birth.

Jesus didn't start Religion/God, he started Christianity for those who accepted him as the Messiah/True son of God. Before, everyone was Jewish.

Also. in Genesis it is documented from the beginning of the earth, the mens births in order. I can't for the life of me remember who fathered Abraham, but he was a descendant of Adam(Obviously.), Genesis begins with Adam and Eve.

Not to take this thread off topic or anything but I have a question about Genesis. Adam and Eve were the first people on earth I understand that, and they had kids...but how did the human population grow so big then. If their kids had kids, and so forth, that wouldn't work er properly would it? So my question is...was it just them starting off the human race and theirs kids made more kids and stuff or what?

Rusty wrote:

closeyoureyes wrote:Goodness Gracious Me.

You really don't know anything about Religion, do you. Jesus is in the NEW TESTAMENT. There was also this thing called the "Old Testament", which documents life under God from the beginning of the earth until Jesus's birth.

Jesus didn't start Religion/God, he started Christianity for those who accepted him as the Messiah/True son of God. Before, everyone was Jewish.

Also. in Genesis it is documented from the beginning of the earth, the mens births in order. I can't for the life of me remember who fathered Abraham, but he was a descendant of Adam(Obviously.), Genesis begins with Adam and Eve.

Not to take this thread off topic or anything but I have a question about Genesis. Adam and Eve were the first people on earth I understand that, and they had kids...but how did the human population grow so big then. If their kids had kids, and so forth, that wouldn't work er properly would it? So my question is...was it just them starting off the human race and theirs kids made more kids and stuff or what?

The Bible says Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel. The Bible then says Cain "layed with his wife" and had Enoch. The Bible makes no mention of where his wife comes from so it can be assumed that God created more humans other than Adam and Eve. The Bible says Adam and Eve were the first but it no where does it say that only Adam and Eve were created without being born.

At least that's my best stab at the topic. I'm no commentator.

You know, I never understood why the Bible has two creation stories...
They have Adam and Eve and they have God created the earth in 6 days.

I've always wondered about that.
But I'm not a religious person and I have never and have no real interst in actually reading the bible so I'm sure someone else knows about this better then I do.

The Bible does not have two creation stories. God created the heavens in 6 days. Upon doing that, God then created Adam and Eve after everyone on earth had been formed.

If God created other beings...then wouldn't that mean we are not necessarily descended of Adam?

I know very little about the creation story. Just that it's a common misconception that God created the world, in actuality it was Jesus Christ. Or maybe this a Mormon thing...I'm not sure.

Bible story from what I'm familiar with is that God created the world in 6 days, 7th day he took a rest. Then he created the humans that were bound to fail .

now to scientifically prove:
book of relevation has 404 verses, now add the number of filipinos in the bible, multiplied by number of days left in the year, subtracted by the number of apostles at the last supper over the square root of the number of lesbians in the bible, raised to the power of the number of gays in the bible factoring in john nash's equilibrium theorem and integral calculus and multi-variable differentiation and what do you get?

you get LEFT BELOW! its the RAPTURE!

now would "gayness" or "homosexuality" be wrong if there were only two people left in the world ie. two women or just two men? hmmmm....

I just looked. Bible says God. Mosiah says Jesus Christ. So I guess I'm the only one who thinks that.

Anything could potentially be ok if it was commanded.