ClumsyMonkey.net

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sunday.htm

[p. 55] In 274, Aurelian … created a new cult of the “Invincible Sun.” Worshipped in a splendid temple, served by pontiffs who were raised to the level of the ancient pontiffs of Rome, celebrated every fourth year by magnificent games, Sol Invictus was definitely promoted to the highest rank in the divine hierarchy and became the official protector of the Sovereigns and of the Empire… He [Aurelian] placed in his new sanctuary the images of Bel and Helios, which he captured at Palmyra. In establishing this new State cult, Aurelian in reality proclaimed the dethronement of the old Roman idolatry and the accession of Semitic Sun-worship…
[p. 56] This sidereal theology, founded on ancient beliefs of Chaldean astrologers, transformed in the Hellenistic age under the twofold influence of astronomic discoveries and Stoic thought, [was] promoted, after becoming a pantheistic Sun-worship, to the rank of official religion of the Roman Empire.

Source: Franz Cumont, Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans (reprint; New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1960), pp. 55, 56.

The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.

Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnam’s Sons, New York.

Sunday actually come from the traditional pagan worship of the sun-god to facilitate conversion to christianity in the early roman christian days

happening fish wrote:http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sunday.htm

[p. 55] In 274, Aurelian … created a new cult of the “Invincible Sun.” Worshipped in a splendid temple, served by pontiffs who were raised to the level of the ancient pontiffs of Rome, celebrated every fourth year by magnificent games, Sol Invictus was definitely promoted to the highest rank in the divine hierarchy and became the official protector of the Sovereigns and of the Empire… He [Aurelian] placed in his new sanctuary the images of Bel and Helios, which he captured at Palmyra. In establishing this new State cult, Aurelian in reality proclaimed the dethronement of the old Roman idolatry and the accession of Semitic Sun-worship…
[p. 56] This sidereal theology, founded on ancient beliefs of Chaldean astrologers, transformed in the Hellenistic age under the twofold influence of astronomic discoveries and Stoic thought, [was] promoted, after becoming a pantheistic Sun-worship, to the rank of official religion of the Roman Empire.

Source: Franz Cumont, Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans (reprint; New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1960), pp. 55, 56.

The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.

Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnam’s Sons, New York.

exactly, people didn't believe me before when i brought up the point that many Christian things were based on Pagan rituals and objects that way it could convert more followers

happening fish wrote:

faninor wrote:He was also born more than 2005 years ago. Christmas actually originated from a pagan holiday. I think Christians borrowed some of the ideas of the holiday, and the time of the year that it was celebrated, to try to get people who didn't want to give up that holiday to convert to Christianity.

a ton of things are like that, including church [being held] on sunday instead of [being held] on the sabbath like in the jewish tradition. it's shameless.

where did the confusion come from?? i'm lost too now!

i understand you Alex, i was tryingto say the same thing but worded mine a lot worse and didn't use quotes.

not you!

Now everyone is confused

oh and hey, turns out the site i got that from is a bona fide bible thumping site. so there you have it, it's not even denied. like i said, shameless!

I AM ME wrote:

happening fish wrote:http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sunday.htm

[p. 55] In 274, Aurelian … created a new cult of the “Invincible Sun.” Worshipped in a splendid temple, served by pontiffs who were raised to the level of the ancient pontiffs of Rome, celebrated every fourth year by magnificent games, Sol Invictus was definitely promoted to the highest rank in the divine hierarchy and became the official protector of the Sovereigns and of the Empire… He [Aurelian] placed in his new sanctuary the images of Bel and Helios, which he captured at Palmyra. In establishing this new State cult, Aurelian in reality proclaimed the dethronement of the old Roman idolatry and the accession of Semitic Sun-worship…
[p. 56] This sidereal theology, founded on ancient beliefs of Chaldean astrologers, transformed in the Hellenistic age under the twofold influence of astronomic discoveries and Stoic thought, [was] promoted, after becoming a pantheistic Sun-worship, to the rank of official religion of the Roman Empire.

Source: Franz Cumont, Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans (reprint; New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1960), pp. 55, 56.

The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.

Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnam’s Sons, New York.

exactly, people didn't believe me before when i brought up the point that many Christian things were based on Pagan rituals and objects that way it could convert more followers

Oh I believe you and am well aware of this. I'm not arguing over whether or not this has happened. I'm merely saying that the first Christians held worship on the day after the sabbath in honor of Christs resurrection. I don't think it can really be argued that the first christians had it in their mind to do any converting of Pagan religions.

Yeah there was a bunch of other stuff too, that was created to demonize the Pagan rituals.


Posidons trident became the devils pitchfork
Nature worshipers became witchs
The pentagram became the sign of the devil

let me try this again

The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.

this sunday thing's just an example, by the way, in keeping with sean's example of christmas

Joe Cooler wrote:
Oh I believe you and am well aware of this. I'm not arguing over whether or not this has happened. I'm merely saying that the first Christians held worship on the day after the sabbath in honor of Christs resurrection. I don't think it can really be argued that the first christians had it in their mind to do any converting of Pagan religions.

I think they did later on as the religion was developing, many Religion profs, anthropologists, and historians would agree with me as well

Did what later on? Hold it on Sunday in honor of Christ or hold it on Sunday to override pagans? If you ment the second option I'd agree with you.

happening fish wrote:let me try this again

The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.

this sunday thing's just an example, by the way, in keeping with sean's example of christmas

Alright, I'll agree. However I will say that the first Christians (those alive during the time of Jesus) held their worship on Sunday for other reasons. Agreed??

I haven't heard anything to that effect, so I don't know.

I wouldn't put it past those crazy Christians to like...try to convert people...

Yeah, if the pagans started spreading stories about some demon who will eat your soul who had a white robe, beard, and a little gold ring on his head, everyone would just laugh and say ha ha, silly pagans!

happening fish wrote:I haven't heard anything to that effect, so I don't know.

It states that the early Christians met on Sunday in the Bible. The book of Acts to be more precise. Considering the cult of "The invisible Sun" was created long after this, I'd say it is safe to assume they met on Sunday for the sole purpose of remembering the day Jesus rose. If you want me to back it up with sources, just say the word.

1. Jesus' birthday is generally regarded to be about 4 BC

2. Early Christians met on Sunday (which was actually called something else at the time ) simply because it was the day after Jesus' death. It's quite tricky to argue that early Christians met on Sunday to subvert other beliefs at the time when some of these beliefs didn't exist.

3. Also remember that after Jesus died the God of the Jews and His Kingdom was now open to all as opposed to simply His people before Christ. This alone drew lots of people to the religion even if some didn't convert. Eye witness testimonies of Christ's miracles (whether you believe they happened or not, there were a number of people back then who testified to witnessing them) also pulled crowds.

4. A lot of things done in the name of religion are not necessarily representative of the religion (this ones a no brainer but people tend to ignore this and use idiocy to point out a religions faults)

5. I'm sure it says somewhere in the Bible that Christianity will grow to become the most fractured religion of all time (don't ask me where)

6. Joe if you would like to forward on your essay to me. korzic@mpx.com.au

Korzic wrote:
It's quite tricky to argue that early Christians met on Sunday to subvert other beliefs at the time when some of these beliefs didn't exist.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The beliefs that they were trying to convert others from were the many long-standing Pagan religions, and possibly even eastern religion later. Again, i'm not sure what you're really trying to say here, enlighten me. I'd say most religions are just as old, if not older then Christianity.