9/11 Anniversary

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 9/18/2003, 4:01 pm

venom, you are referring to the 6 day war, which was a sneak attack against the arabic nations by israel. during this war, ariel sharon was a military commander and slaughtered over 4000 people in jordanian cities by lining them up against the walls of the city and shooting them.

israel iniated the conflict without declaring war. it. was. a. sneak. attack.

during this same 6 day war, the israelis attacked an american intelligence ship and killed 16 soldiers. your government and their government collaborated to cover this up.

please, read this:

http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/zimmer ... rman1.html

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/18/2003, 7:36 pm

LOL.....omg thats funny. #1 you have a VERY twisted view on what happened in 1967. Isreal didn't not start the 6 day war. The Palestinians and thier Arab neighbors had been conducting terrorist attacks on the Jews for months leading up to the start of the Six Day War. They REFUSED attempts by the international community to negotiate separate states because they wanted the Jews out of the Middle East. They openly said they wanted war and when Israel got sick of the bombings thats what they got!! #2 you give me that BS that you wrote as proof that you know your history?? Come on. Weak, weak, weak!!!

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 9/19/2003, 3:10 pm

guerrilla raids were being conducted by arafat across the israeli border our of egypt, not by any of the governments israel attacked. the israeli's attacked without a declaration of war by either party.

and that "bs i wrote" was not proof of my history knowledge, it was a challenge to you. how do you account for that glaring hypocrisy by your own government? how do you account for your government's repeated condoning of american citizens and troops being murdered by the israeli army?

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/20/2003, 5:16 pm

guerrilla raids were being conducted by arafat across the israeli border our of egypt, not by any of the governments israel attacked. the israeli's attacked without a declaration of war by either party.

First of all that is false. The governments WERE involved and I'll prove it. Second you just killed any validity you had in supporting the current Palestinian government (terrorist group) because guess who is running the show for the Palestinians?? Thats right.....Arafat. The very person you claim to be totally responsible for the atrocious acts of terrorism that started the six day war. Great leader huh?? Lastly we've had this argument over the American protester before remember?? Why don't you post the picture of the bulldozer that killed her? The thing was as big as a house and the blade on the front stood about 8 feet in the air. The driver of the dozer had NO way of seeing Ms. Corrie and you know it. Not to mention the noise one of those massive machines makes, he also never heard anyone yelling. The guy was doing his job and some fool got in his way. Now how many of you would run out in front of a machine like that on purpose and NOT get out of its way??? Whats next Doug? You may think you are the "king of history and politics" when Corey and I aren't here on a daily basis like you, but your wrong. You have a very twisted view on things and its sad.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/20/2003, 5:23 pm

Heres your proof:

http://www.meforum.org/article/210

An Arab Attack Averted

Recently declassified documents reveal a number of Arab countries had extensive plans to attack Israel several days before the Six Day War began. The Egyptian attack plan, "Operation Dawn" called for strategic bombings of major ports, airfields, cities and the Dimona nuclear reactor. The Arab armies would then effectively cut Israel in half with an armored thrust from northern Sinai, through the Negev desert.

Nasser was intent on reversing the humiliating Arab defeats of 1948-49 and 1956. He had provoked Israel when he closed the Straits of Tiran. In the weeks leading up to Israel's preemptive strike, he had mobilized the Egyptian army in Sinai, and was poised to launch what he called "the operation that will surprise the world." Abdel Amer, an Egyptian general who sought to augment and consolidate his power in Egypt, planned the operation, set to take place on May 27, 1967.

Unaware of this development, on May 26, 1967, Israeli foreign minister Abba Eban arrived in Washington to determine America's position if war broke out in the Middle East. Upon his arrival, however, Eban received a secret telegram from Eshkol directing him to convey to U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson that Israel had just learned of the Arab attack plan.

When the two met, Johnson said he had no evidence of an impending attack. In the event that Israeli intelligence was correct, Johnson instructed the Egyptian ambassador to send a cable warning Nasser to not attack Israel. Additionally, the administration warned the Soviets that if Egypt attacked Israel, the U.S. would hold them responsible. Indeed, U.S. and Soviet pressure forced Nasser to cancel the attack planned for the next day.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 9/21/2003, 11:54 am

you think i like yasser arafat? don't forget what he does for a living: politician. i don't support the palestinian government, obviously, i support the palestinian people.

and what you have there does not show complicity by any of the arab governments in the terrorist attacks. all you have is some guy's theory about whether or not egypt was going to attack israel. i can go grab you a theory that says nasser was just saber rattling, and find quotes from him saying he wanted israel to strike first so he'd have a good excuse to attack them.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/21/2003, 1:19 pm

I'm starting to think you can't read. It clearly says that there ARE documents from the Arab nations that they planned on attacking Israel. You know what.....just for you I'll see if I can dig up those documents.

Recently declassified documents reveal a number of Arab countries had extensive plans to attack Israel several days before the Six Day War began. The Egyptian attack plan, "Operation Dawn" called for strategic bombings of major ports, airfields, cities and the Dimona nuclear reactor. The Arab armies would then effectively cut Israel in half with an armored thrust from northern Sinai, through the Negev desert.

InRepair79 · Post by **InRepair79** » 9/22/2003, 11:15 am

Finally, a chance to respond.

First off, I think you need to calm the hell down, Venom. I never said I didn't or couldn't "feel" for the children orphaned because of 9-11. The only reason why I didn't come out and explicity state as much is because it's already been done quite a few times, and I just assumed (silly me) that I could go without mentioning the tragedy of American lives being lost without someone pulling that "anyone left of center at a time like this hates America / wants Americans to die / doesn't care about Americans who HAVE died," Anne Coulter bullshit.

Now, as for the wars. In regards to Afghanistan and what could have been done in the stead of full scale bombing (oh, but at least we dropped crates of spoiled Pop Tarts for the civilians), here you go: http://adbusters.org/magazine/39/whatcould.html. Take note of the part where "refusing to create further martyrs" is mentioned. That's exactly what I was saying to you before. There are other ways, and we'd sure as hell had better get aquainted with them if we ever want this stuff to actually stop...not the symptoms, but the sickness, itself.

And Iraq? Well, finding something wrong with that war is like shooting
fish in a barrel, or rather, firing a Tomahawk missle into an Iraqi village from miles and miles away. First of all, if you actually believe this is/was a war about liberating people, you're, well, naive to say the least. It's about American economic interests, and, as this article (http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7577) demonstrates,
the economic interests of our brave and noble "liberators." (you know, the bald and fat and rich white guys that helm the Bush Administration) It's a war based on an edifice of lies and half-truths. "Iraq was involved in 9-11": never any evidence of this..."Saddam has WMDs": nowhere to be found..."We want to free the poor Iraqis": yeah, right..."They're EVIL"...meaningless rhetoric delivered (by a man who could very well be described with the same adjectives) nonetheless gobbled up by a majority Christian nation by as afraid of and itching to demonize different cultures and religions as they are ignorant. If, to all of this, your reply is "Sure, it's about oil. What's wrong with that?", then, to that I say (without explaining to you why it IS, in fact, wrong): "Fine. Then our leaders should stand in front of Congress and the U.N. and the world and say as much." You know? At least be HONEST about your intentions. Bush and co. have been anything but since the beginning of this mess.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 9/22/2003, 3:01 pm

it's not about oil, if it were, we would have taken out Venezuela while they were fighting amongst themselves.

your ad busters link doesn't work neither. the "sickness" you refer to about afganistan is old world thinking. that's what afganistan and alot of other nations around the world "suffer" from. old world thinking is spiritual and overly religious. everything revolves around god in an old world country. most of the new world philosophy don't hold religion as high as these old world countries do. the new world movement it's about money, advancement, and equality.

and that's what this confilct is, the Old World Philosophy's bi-product Vs the New World Philosophy. the old world countries themselves have not declared war against the new world, it's the philosophy itself that has. it's the radicals and the over religious. because we don't worship a certain god, or not pray enough or hold religion as a second hand thing in life, they see us as evil. (EX. the great satan=USA) alot of religions see women as second rate humans, and in the new world philosophy, they can make money, work, and do whatever else they please. they're equals in the new world philosophy, and it pisses them off. the New world philosophy has never wanted to rid the world of old world thinkers, but the old world wants to get rid of the new world altogether. and it's only now that the US (New World Philosophers) fights back.

there are plenty of old world countries all over the place, that are peaceful. it just so happens that many of the violent old world countries are in the middle east. they've been fighting since alexander the great, alot of these countries don't need a good reason to fight, to many people in the middle east, fighting is all they know. old world philosophy is not a sickness at all. the sickness itself is the radical bi-product it creates.

doug · Post by **doug** » 9/22/2003, 3:21 pm

goddamn reno. that was an excellent post.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 9/22/2003, 3:31 pm

plans for attack do not neccessarily mean the attack will be carried out, venom.

however, that is neither here nor there. the fact remains that the israeli army is now occupying those territories brutally. whether or they attained control over them with "legal" or "illegal" means is totally irrelevant. what they are doing is wrong.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/22/2003, 3:48 pm

Blue eye.....tell me one thing....did Israel move into that territory before or after they had been attacked countless times by terrorists?? Why doesn't Israel have the right to defend itself against Hamas and Islamic Jihad? Why do you think they have to just sit back and watch their people die in suicide attack after suicide attack? Will someone PLEASE explain to be why you think every country that is attacked isn't supposed to fight back?? I don't see the logic in that. Let me guess your gonna argue that Israel (and the US in Iraq) are killing innocents as well as the terrorists? Do me a favor and save it because it doesn't hold water. This is WAR, and in war civilians die. There will never be a collateral damage free war. NEVER! This is the world you live in like it or not. To the Americans in there that think thier country is so evil, I would like to see you spend a couple years in another. I would like to see any female from this board go live in the Middle East and see how much you like life. Go live in France where your government allows THOUSANDS to die in a single summer because they were more concentrated on criticizing the US over Iraq than dealing with the health services issue during the heatwave. I would put money on the fact that France allowed more people to die than have died in Iraq since the start of military action. I NEVER saw one post about that issue but i see tons on the us.

doug · Post by **doug** » 9/22/2003, 3:51 pm

13600 died in the heatwave - but there's a big difference between deaths as a result of a natural disaster and deaths as the result of a WAR.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 9/22/2003, 3:58 pm

Natrual Disaster?

If the US had allowed that many to die (hell, even one-quarter that) just because it got a little too hot, we'd never hear the end of it. All we would hear is how the US doesn't care about its people and how could they allow it to happen and blah, blah, blah. France is apparently a good guy so everyone looks at it as a lil oopsie.

doug · Post by **doug** » 9/22/2003, 3:59 pm

Corey that's complete crap! There's a hurricane going on right now and i don't see anybody blaming it on your government

it was the weather in france. that's something that you can't control.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 9/22/2003, 4:00 pm

if 13000 people died as a result as the government sat by and watched they would.

doug · Post by **doug** » 9/22/2003, 4:12 pm

people have died before in the US as a result of unavoidable disasters caused by nature. i don't recall the nation ever being denounced because of it.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 9/22/2003, 4:17 pm

yah, but the US would be called upon to quickly reduce the numbers killed and if it did nothing, it would be chastised.

France sat by and just watched the numbers increase before they declared it an emergency.

doug · Post by **doug** » 9/22/2003, 4:19 pm

i'm going to trust you on this one Corey. and i will concede your point, sometimes the global eye is more critical of the US.

but that's par for the course when you're the loudest and proudest. people will want to bring you down whenever possible. and that doesn't excuse the fact that america does do things worthy of critizing.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 9/22/2003, 4:21 pm

Hey I won't argue with that, I'm just saying.