What are your views on this?

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 7/23/2003, 2:06 pm

You can hide depression, it happens all the time. Even from your parents.

This isn't anyone's fault but the girl's. Sure, there were influences on her behavior. Maybe even her music did influence her. But it didn't <i>tell</i> her to kill herself, and the musicians shouldn't be blamed.

The parents could have been more prying.

The friends could have tried to find help.

The music could have been all bunnies and fluff.

The girl could not have been a dumbass.

Could have, could have, could have. You can't blame stuff like this on any one source.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 2:14 pm

Of course you can hide depression, I have done it all the time. But honestly, when you're to the point where you feel that hanging yourself is the best option, there's gotta be a good chance that you're not skipping around the house smiling and smelling flowers. Odds are there's a chance you're gonna slip up a few times and look sad around your parents. Now I am sure this kid had to slip up, because no one can pretend to be that happy and then surprisingly commit suicide. That's just not how it goes. That kid had to look pretty depressed a few times, and if her parents didn't pick up on those times, then they have no right to blame anyone but themselves. All they're doing is saying it's everyone else's fault for their daughter's death, and not theirs. Hell, for all we know those parents could beat her, but as long as they can blame the music and the friends, we'll never know the real story.

Mechanical Thought · Post by **Mechanical Thought** » 7/23/2003, 2:21 pm

Her note even looked happy. I don't understand it, at all.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 7/23/2003, 2:44 pm

i dont understand what the note even says :wtf:

the article also mentioned that there has been several people that have wanted 'adam's song' to be played at thier funeral. well, duh. they're going to want a song that mirrors their emotions and how they're feeling. if you feel sad, why the hell would you want 'stronger' or something to be played. they can relate to it and it makes sense to them, its about the exact emotions they are feeling.

speaking of adam's song, it's not that of an upseting song. i wouldnt of even known it was about suicide unless i hadnt been told that. *shrug*

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 3:16 pm

Face it, as long as there's music with a deeper message than "I love you baby, and to show it, I am going to dance around like a fucking idiot" it's going to be blamed for a lot of things. Marylin Manson did not say "Kids, go out, grab guns, and shoot people in your school," yet he was blamed for the Columbine incident because the kids acted gothic and owned a cd of his. Judas Priest was taken to trial and blamed two kids killing themselves, because if you sped up a vinyl of one of their songs to an insane rate, there's a gerbil-like squeek that sounds like "do it." So until the music industry conforms to "We love everyone and everything," music will be the fault.

But my question is what do people say when a kid kills him or herself if they listen to shit like Britney Spears or *Nsync? Does the music get blamed? Or do the parents move onto something a little more ridiculous and blame it on the teachers for giving them a bad grade or something?

its4am_isanybodyhome · Post by **its4am_isanybodyhome** » 7/23/2003, 3:59 pm

my parents are not stupid but i have been depressed for years and they seem oblivious to it. i have tried to commit suicide multiple times but i swear they wouldnt know until they found me dead.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 7/23/2003, 4:02 pm

jill, you really need to talk to someone about this...

i love you, dont forget that.

its4am_isanybodyhome · Post by **its4am_isanybodyhome** » 7/23/2003, 4:06 pm

i love you too yannic! *hugs* thank you.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 4:24 pm

No offense, but if you have tried to kill yourself multiple times and your parents have no clue to you trying it, then they're stupid. You're not an actress, so odds are you've slipped up and have looked sad around them. If your parents haven't tried to help you out, then they're stupid, there's no way around it. There's a difference between being oblivious and ignoring a problem.

Mechanical Thought · Post by **Mechanical Thought** » 7/23/2003, 5:57 pm

I agree, Alan. I have dropped in and out of multiple month long depressions and my parents found out sooner or later almost every single time. My parents can usually sense something is wrong, even when I don't slip up.

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 7/23/2003, 6:28 pm

So is blaming the parents any worse than blaming musicians? Music might advocate depression, parents might not be coming into your room every five minutes to say "honey, are you okay? are you okay? sure you're not going to kill yourself?", neither one is the culprit. And even if they did notice their kid was depressed, how are they to know he/she's suicidal? Do you guys know of anyone who <i>wasn't</i> depressed at times when they were a teenager?

I don't think it's a good idea to blame the parents. They didn't hang the girl. She hanged herself. It's her fucking fault, despite her influences. I'm so sick of people looking to find a culprit for teen suicide, other than the teen her/himself. "Oh, why did this happen?" people are always asking. It happened because she decided to kill herself, dumbass.

Besides, the question's moot anyway; after they're dead, they're dead. I just think people like to try and find something 'bad' to point to and say "this is what caused it!" Because that makes it easier than actually coming to terms with the fact that it was a choice their loved one made to die.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 7/23/2003, 6:44 pm

I agree with most of what has been said, so I'll skip over that stuff and add this...

She could very easily have been a loner who moped around the house all day, and stayed in her room listening to music. Maybe she was a "goth", and her parents figured that her depressed or apathetic attitude was just a part of some phase she was in. It's a mistake any parent can make. Some don't, but some aren't as protective as others, and take the "give them space" route. That isn't always a bad thing. However, in cases like this it obviously is. Parenting is one hell of a balancing act, always trying to find the perfect middle ground. These parents weren't able to find the perfect way to parent this particular child. No one could have predicted what this girl would do without being extremely intrusive and overprotective, which the girl would probably have reacted badly to. She was likely an extreme introvert, who didn't know how to or want to express herself. That would also explain the suicide note. She didn't know how to express herself, and must have felt that what she did would suffice.

Actually, the fact that she mentioned songs for her funeral ment that she had thought about the world after her death, but not actually about the people there in that world. She didn't try to explain what was wrong, possibly because she didn't know how. Or maybe she just didn't care. She may have not had any friends, and she may have felt like an outsider at home.

As for the seeming stupidity of the note, I have no idea...

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 7:07 pm

OK Aerin, no one is to blame for this except herself, I agree with you there. Suicide is the coward's way out of things. If one things swallowing a bullet is the best way to deal with problems, it's survival of the fittest. She clearly wasn't mentally fit to have children and what not.

But the only reason I have such a problem with the parents in this case is for what they're saying. They blame the suicide on everything else. She listened to music with an edge to it, that has to be the reason. She had friends that didn't tell the parents how she felt, it's their fault. I am saying that if the parents got their heads out of their asses, it never would have come to this. You don't become suicidal in a day. There has to be a series of things to bring someone down, and it usually takes a long time of feeling like shit before you are crazy enough to off yourself. In that time, the parents should have noticed their daughter had a problem. It's as much of their fault as it is anyone else's, but in the end, it's always the girl's choice that's tying the noose, and in the end, she's the coward.

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 7/23/2003, 7:11 pm

You're right that the parents could probably have done a better job. And I'm sure they know it. But they're grieving. They're in denial. They don't want to admit it. It's understandable.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 7/23/2003, 7:16 pm

I agree partially with that. The parents are being assholes, blaming the music for something that the music obviously didn't cause. However, I don't agree with the coward remarks. There's a lot more that goes into it than being afraid.

its4am_isanybodyhome · Post by **its4am_isanybodyhome** » 7/23/2003, 7:17 pm

I hope this is goodbye wrote:No offense, but if you have tried to kill yourself multiple times and your parents have no clue to you trying it, then they're stupid. You're not an actress, so odds are you've slipped up and have looked sad around them. If your parents haven't tried to help you out, then they're stupid, there's no way around it. There's a difference between being oblivious and ignoring a problem.

i have looked sad around them, but then they're just like, is anything wrong? and i just say, no, and then thats it. sometimes they dont believe me when i say nothings wrong though. i duno...

committed · Post by **committed** » 7/23/2003, 8:53 pm

yeah. suicide is the cowardly, selfish, backstabbing, and stupid way out.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 8:54 pm

Sounds like the words of someone that had someone close to him commit suicide.

committed · Post by **committed** » 7/23/2003, 8:59 pm

me? no.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 9:00 pm

Well then, you're still right.