What are your views on this?

[rustynation]

[Axtech]

Alan, Jeff... I've honestly never had a lower opinion of you two than I do now. You obviously know nothing about what it is like to be driven to the point where you contemplate suicide. Who the hell are you to judge the actions of someone who is psychologically unstable, and who's life obviously isn't as picture perfect as you seem to think it is? I know people who have considered suicide, and even have a friends who's brother went through with it. My psych teacher told us about the few times that he seriously considered it, and almost went through with it. People go through depressions, some a lot worse than others. Suicide is not cowardly or backstabbing. I don't think I've heard anything that bull-headedly stupid in my life.

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[Axtech]

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[Sufjan Stevens]

[Mechanical Thought]

[sandsleeper]

[robcore]

[Sufjan Stevens]

[One-Eye]

Suicide is selfish, and it is occasionally done for purely selfish reasons (to "prove a point"; "you'll be sorry when I'm gone", etc.). But not always. I agree with Rob that in some cases, the person is severely sick and doesn't perceive the enormity of what they're doing. It's still selfish, in a sense, because they are thinking primarily of themselves. But it's because of their disease, not their intention, not their stupidity.

I think it's justified to be angry when people commit suicide, especially if it seems so pointless or selfish. But I don't think we should always blame them, especially in cases of severe depression.

[thirdhour]

I was looking through some of my mom's papers the other day and i found out, from doctor's reports, that she has seriously considered suicide, that she thought vividly about killing herself. she feels worthless, and she is going through such terrible pain.

ive known she was seriously depressed for some time, but i never knew she actually thought about suicide. thank god she never went through with attempting it, and she mentioned once that the only reason she didnt was because she knew me and my siblings needed her. but theres days when i know if it wasnt her feelings of responsility for us, she would already be gone.

how can i blame her for that, be angry at her for considering suicide? i can't be angry at her for being unconsolably sad. THAT would be stupid and selfish. instead of just thinking about yourself, think about how unbeleivabley horrible someone must feel about their lives to even think about ending it. i love her more than anything, and im not going to think that what has happened to her is someway her fault.

dont you fucking say anything about how stupid my mom is, ok, you fucking hear me? im on the verge of crying just writing this here and i dont need you fucks making me feel any worse.

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[Axtech]

[Axtech]

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i really don't agree that people who kill themselves are in some completely warped state of mind. i've known a few people who have contemplated and even attempted suicide. it's all from self pity. they have low self esteem and think no one cares about them. and they get so wrapped up in themselves that they stop caring about the people in their life.

[Axtech]

Yes, but outside factors go into it too. They are, as I said, in a state of deep depression. This depression is often caused by situations around them. In the example of my friend's brother, he was made fun of constantly at school. More people knew him by his insulting nick-name than his real name. His family life was crap. I know about their family, and it's not a great situation. I'm fairly certain that he was involved in drugs, because the cops have been over and searched my friend, thinking he was his brother. With no friends, an unstable family and possibly running from the law, he fell into depression, with no one he felt he could turn to. While talking to a semi-friend (someone who didn't make fun of him as much as others), and told them that he was planning to kill himself. She was worried, but didn't do anything. As I said, he never showed up to school the next day. It was the depression that influenced his decision.

As for the selfish part, that applies here too. His little sister was the one that found him. His 13 year old sister. Having her go through that was selfish. However, he wasn't likely thinking of that.

The only point that I'm trying to make is that selfishness and backstabbing is far from the only thing that goes into it.

[committed]

yes i know that. they are not killing themselves just to spite others. but they allow themselves to sink into this depressed state simply out of self pity. when they stop thinking of other people, they become selfish. i already knew your point. and the point i am making is they allow themselves to get to that state. suicidal depression doesn't grow on trees. you create in yourself. you get so wrapped up in yourself and how crappy you think your life is and you stop thinking about the 13 year old sisters in your life. i mean there will be some extreme cases, sorta like your friends. but more often than not, your life isn't that fucking bad and you just stop caring so much so that you think it is.

[One-Eye]

Depression is a chemical imbalance. They don't "allow" themselves to get depressed. It often doesn't have to do with outside influences. Some people who "have it all" are immeasurably depressed. We can't blame people for chemical depression.

That's not the only type of suicide, of course. There are drama suicides, there are reactions to something in life, etc. But you can't say people allowed themselves to get depressed. That's like saying you allowed yourself to get leukemia, and we should somehow blame you when you die.

Sickness isn't a choice.

[Axtech]

<- outposted

I can agree with some of what you're saying there. I just think that calling it backstabbing is way too blunt.

But there is an unstableness that goes along with it. It's not all conscious decisions.