What are your views on this?

[rustynation]

No offense, but if you have tried to kill yourself multiple times and your parents have no clue to you trying it, then they're stupid. You're not an actress, so odds are you've slipped up and have looked sad around them. If your parents haven't tried to help you out, then they're stupid, there's no way around it. There's a difference between being oblivious and ignoring a problem.

i have looked sad around them, but then they're just like, is anything wrong? and i just say, no, and then thats it. sometimes they dont believe me when i say nothings wrong though. i duno...

Your parents care about you. Let them help you.

[Axtech]

Alan, Jeff... I've honestly never had a lower opinion of you two than I do now. You obviously know nothing about what it is like to be driven to the point where you contemplate suicide. Who the hell are you to judge the actions of someone who is psychologically unstable, and who's life obviously isn't as picture perfect as you seem to think it is? I know people who have considered suicide, and even have a friends who's brother went through with it. My psych teacher told us about the few times that he seriously considered it, and almost went through with it. People go through depressions, some a lot worse than others. Suicide is not cowardly or backstabbing. I don't think I've heard anything that bull-headedly stupid in my life.

[committed]

right. don't pull that shit with me. i went over this in the other thread. i've been depressed before. there once was a day when suicide crossed my mind. and you know what? it was fucking stupid of me to even consider. suicide is nothing but selfish. sorry charlie.

[Axtech]

Okay. You are obviously stable enough to realize that suicide is stupid. Suicidal people aren't stupid, they're unstable. That's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to justify suicide, I'm trying to explain that the comments you made were unjustified. People who commit suicide are not in a logical state of mind. They're severely depressed individuals who feel like death is their only answer. They're not backstabbers. They're not cowards.

[committed]

unstable schmable. take miss good charlotte for example. she was stable enough to function properly and be excited about her formal or whatever. she made a concious choice to take her own life. because for some reason she wasn't happy and she was too scared to wait and see if things get better. and everyone that ever cared about her, she devastated (the knife in the back). you keep saying that i don't know what their life is like. well THEIR life is not the only life in their life. they need to think about the other people in their life, not just themselves. suicide=selfish

[Sufjan Stevens]

Shut the fuck up Rob. You wanna know wht I say what I say about this situation? Because one night I got so depressed I drank and drank and drank until I passed out and stopped breathing. When I was revived and came back to sanity, I realized how fucking stupid, selfish, and cowardly what I did was. I knew what my limits were when it came to alcohol, and I damn near tripled what I can usually handle.

Face it, Jeff and I are right. If you were dumb enough to commit suicide, we'd feel bad, but we'd be pissed off at you, like everyone else should be. If you do it, no one will feel sorry for you, they would be pissed off that you're dumb enough to believe that suicide was the only way to make things better. You abandon and hurt everyone that ever loved you by killing yourself, it's a fucking sick thing to do.

So before you go ahead and start running your mouth about me, maybe you should actually find out about my past, and you'll find out what I am really like. I've had problems, and I still have them, but I know what I did was wrong with the suicide attempt. If I killed myself that night, not only would I not have spoken to any of you here, I never would have found out what my life will hold and I would have spat in the face of everyone that ever loved me.

[Mechanical Thought]

I agree completely with Alan here. Suicide, IS cowardly and selfish. I have always felt this way, really. I don't think people make much of a point with sucide anymore either. This guy at my school tried to prove something about bullying when he hung himself, but people just don't care. Everyone forgot about it the next day, and his point never went across to people.

[sandsleeper]

Face it, Jeff and I are right. If you were dumb enough to commit suicide, we'd feel bad, but we'd be pissed off at you, like everyone else should be. If you do it, no one will feel sorry for you, they would be pissed off that you're dumb enough to believe that suicide was the only way to make things better.

you definitely have a point there. last year a friend of mine killed herself, and after the shock wore off i just started feeling extremely angry. i was sad, but at the heart of the sadness there was anger. and maybe that's selfish, but it was only in reaction to her selfishness. and if she wasn't being selfish then she was being stupid to think that no one cared enough about her, to think that our entire community wouldn't be thrown off its tracks because of what she chose to do.

her father even called what she did "very stupid" and "foolish" in the fucking eulogy.

[robcore]

I would actually be quick to lay some blame on her friends for not telling anybody. If someone tells you that they're planning on doing themselves in, you have the right to tell someone who is legally responsible for them (ie. a parent) unless that parent is one of the major reasons for it happening (because of abuse or whatever). I've had two ex girlfriends tell me all about how they were going to do it, so of course i told their parents (how do you think they became ex's?). But at least i had the courage to give up a relationship for a life. I wouldn't be able to function if i knew in advance that someone was going to take their own life. So i did something about it. Her friends should have too.

[Sufjan Stevens]

But face it. Teenagers = drama queens. I've been around countless suicide threats and I talked to the people that made them. And each and every one of them said these things for nothing more than attention. I've only known one person that decided to go through with it, and she never told me anything about how she felt. Yes, she looked sad and no, I didn't bother her about talking to me like I should have, and thankfully she's still alive today.

It comes down to reality when it's on the topic of suicide. If someone comes to you saying, "I'm going to kill myself," the person is doing nothing more than looking for attention. If you think about it, only 1-5% actually say anything about their feelings of committing suicide. Yes you should be worried if someone makes the threat, but odds are if the person is really going to go through with suicide, the person wouldn't come to anyone to make the person paranoid, the person would just do the cutting.

Sexy Rob, I commend you in going to their parents for help. Even though what your ex's said might have been an idle threat, what you did was right.

[One-Eye]

Suicide is selfish, and it is occasionally done for purely selfish reasons (to "prove a point"; "you'll be sorry when I'm gone", etc.). But not always. I agree with Rob that in some cases, the person is severely sick and doesn't perceive the enormity of what they're doing. It's still selfish, in a sense, because they are thinking primarily of themselves. But it's because of their disease, not their intention, not their stupidity.

I think it's justified to be angry when people commit suicide, especially if it seems so pointless or selfish. But I don't think we should always blame them, especially in cases of severe depression.

[thirdhour]

I was looking through some of my mom's papers the other day and i found out, from doctor's reports, that she has seriously considered suicide, that she thought vividly about killing herself. she feels worthless, and she is going through such terrible pain.

ive known she was seriously depressed for some time, but i never knew she actually thought about suicide. thank god she never went through with attempting it, and she mentioned once that the only reason she didnt was because she knew me and my siblings needed her. but theres days when i know if it wasnt her feelings of responsility for us, she would already be gone.

how can i blame her for that, be angry at her for considering suicide? i can't be angry at her for being unconsolably sad. THAT would be stupid and selfish. instead of just thinking about yourself, think about how unbeleivabley horrible someone must feel about their lives to even think about ending it. i love her more than anything, and im not going to think that what has happened to her is someway her fault.

dont you fucking say anything about how stupid my mom is, ok, you fucking hear me? im on the verge of crying just writing this here and i dont need you fucks making me feel any worse.

[committed]

when people feel that their life is so bad, it's not worth living anymore, they are basically saying all the people that care about them are worthless, because those people are definitely a part of that person's life. suicide is a knife in the back.

[Axtech]

When I was revived and came back to sanity

Exactly. You were depressed and not thinking straight.


Look, I'm not trying to say that suicide is right. I'm saying that you can't put all the blame on the person and say that they're backstabbing cowards. There's a lot more involved.

Yes, it is devistating to those around them. But it's not like they just woke up one morning and said "Mmm, I'm afraid of what's going on in my life. I don't care about my friends and family. I'm going to kill myself."

Yes, suicide is stupid. I just really can't agree with the name calling and accusations.

My friend's brother told some people that he felt semi-close to at school that he was planning on commiting suicide. He never came to school the next day, for obvious reasons.

As for teens being drama queens, yes I completely agree with you there. But we can't just ignore everything a teen says and think that it's just them wanting attention. Depression is a very tender subject, which has to be taken care of very delicately.


I regret now about saying that low opinion stuff about you guys. I was just pissed at the way you reacted to someone in the other thread who very well could have been seriously considering killing themselves.


As for your past Alan, I'm sorry to hear that. However, that doesn't change the fact that people who are severely depressed can't think about others. They are unstable.

Jeff... You said "unstable shmable". What is that supposed to mean? That it doesn't matter if someone is severely depressed; "let's just ignore them, and if they commit suicide, they're backstabbing assholes?" I don't think that's what you're thinking, but I have no idea what you mean by this.

[Axtech]

when people feel that their life is so bad, it's not worth living anymore, they are basically saying all the people that care about them are worthless, because those people are definitely a part of that person's life. suicide is a knife in the back.

No. Because people who are driven to that point aren't in a state of mind that is sane enough to allow them to think about these things. Like Alan said, it took until he woke to realize how stupid it would have been to commit suicide. He was very depressed going in to that state, and I doubt that while drinking he was thinking about his family. Yes, suicide turns out to be a selfish act, but that can't be wholly blamed on the suicidal individual.

[committed]

i really don't agree that people who kill themselves are in some completely warped state of mind. i've known a few people who have contemplated and even attempted suicide. it's all from self pity. they have low self esteem and think no one cares about them. and they get so wrapped up in themselves that they stop caring about the people in their life.

[Axtech]

Yes, but outside factors go into it too. They are, as I said, in a state of deep depression. This depression is often caused by situations around them. In the example of my friend's brother, he was made fun of constantly at school. More people knew him by his insulting nick-name than his real name. His family life was crap. I know about their family, and it's not a great situation. I'm fairly certain that he was involved in drugs, because the cops have been over and searched my friend, thinking he was his brother. With no friends, an unstable family and possibly running from the law, he fell into depression, with no one he felt he could turn to. While talking to a semi-friend (someone who didn't make fun of him as much as others), and told them that he was planning to kill himself. She was worried, but didn't do anything. As I said, he never showed up to school the next day. It was the depression that influenced his decision.

As for the selfish part, that applies here too. His little sister was the one that found him. His 13 year old sister. Having her go through that was selfish. However, he wasn't likely thinking of that.

The only point that I'm trying to make is that selfishness and backstabbing is far from the only thing that goes into it.

[committed]

yes i know that. they are not killing themselves just to spite others. but they allow themselves to sink into this depressed state simply out of self pity. when they stop thinking of other people, they become selfish. i already knew your point. and the point i am making is they allow themselves to get to that state. suicidal depression doesn't grow on trees. you create in yourself. you get so wrapped up in yourself and how crappy you think your life is and you stop thinking about the 13 year old sisters in your life. i mean there will be some extreme cases, sorta like your friends. but more often than not, your life isn't that fucking bad and you just stop caring so much so that you think it is.

[One-Eye]

Depression is a chemical imbalance. They don't "allow" themselves to get depressed. It often doesn't have to do with outside influences. Some people who "have it all" are immeasurably depressed. We can't blame people for chemical depression.

That's not the only type of suicide, of course. There are drama suicides, there are reactions to something in life, etc. But you can't say people allowed themselves to get depressed. That's like saying you allowed yourself to get leukemia, and we should somehow blame you when you die.

Sickness isn't a choice.

[Axtech]

<- outposted

I can agree with some of what you're saying there. I just think that calling it backstabbing is way too blunt.

But there is an unstableness that goes along with it. It's not all conscious decisions.