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WTF happened???

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Re: WTF happened???

Postby govtschemes » 10/8/2013, 11:49 pm

No its more I do not think Our Lady Peace made the same music over and over for the first 4 records.

I think everything from Gravity to the Curve album sounds the same or is just rehash of past records.

The only thing that had any creativity to it, was Raines first solo album, that was good.
And I have purchased all the Our Lady Peace albums, but Curve is probably the worst record out of all of them.
They took 3 years to do Healthy in Paranoid Times, 4 years to do Burn Burn and 3 to do Curve and they all are disappointing - and yes when I listen to an Our Lady Peace record its always Spiritual Machines or Happiness, but never the recent ones.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby RileyLewis » 10/8/2013, 11:55 pm

I think both sides are pretty dumb about it. People who say that the current albums have no value are being stupid because there definitely is some value in them, even if they are different. But the people who blindly defend OLP and say that they are as good as ever also sound stupid. It's perfectly valid for people who enjoy one style to disapprove of the new style, especially when the new style isn't as unique as the old style, just like it's perfectly valid to like the newer style and not be a fan of the 90s stuff.

I enjoyed Curve, but it hasn't aged that well with me with the exception of 2 or 3 songs. I hope OLP goes back to making complex music. Curve definitely was more complex than Burn Burn (which didn't hold up well on multiple listens at all). I didn't like their approach with Burn Burn where they basically worked on a song for a day and then abandoned it if it didn't hold up, and I didn't like the opposite approach on Curve where they changed songs so completely as to make them entirely new songs over time. It seemed like in both cases they had no clear direction from the start.

I really like the way that Matthew Good made his new album. He wanted to make 10 songs, and planned what songs he was going to write. He then set out to do each song, laying out the basics. He then brought his live band in, they fleshed out the stuff and added their own unique sound to it, and they recorded. Now obviously it's different with him since he writes everything including almost all the instruments, but with OLP it seems like they have no driving force. Curve had a bit of that, but nowhere near where it needs to be.

I usually bring up Matthew Good when discussing OLP because they went through similar phases and have been around for the same time. Both came out with 3-4 good alt-rock records in the 90s. And both had big changes in the early 2000s. With OLP it was Mike Turner leaving and Raine becoming the driving creative force (well, Bob Rock at first), and with Matt Good it was when he dissolved the band and made a new band and went solo. The difference has been that Matthew Good has continued to change his style with each solo record with a type of purpose, not just by circumstance. Some people have liked the different styles, others haven't, and that's fair because everyone likes different types of music. But each one was made with the intent to make it that way, something that I think OLP has gotten away from. Now they seem to sit down to make a record and they kind of just see what happens. That's fine for a jam session, but I wish they would made a complete record by planning it out and developing a concept or theme, like Matt Good did for his:

Avalanche - Alt rock supported by orchestra. Probably his most famous solo record, but very experimental in song structures.
White Light Rock and Roll Review - Stripped down rock with some slide guitar for a country-ish twist.
Hospital Music - A concept album based on his bipolar disorder and recovery in a hospital after his near-overdose on his medication. Experimental.
Vancouver - More normal rock, but almost everything recorded by Matthew Good or done in a computer.
Lights of Endangered Species - Experimental rock with horns and flutes and other instruments accompanying normal rock stuff.
Arrows of Desire (just came out last month) - Alternative rock, similar to the late 90s/early 2000s.

Basically he alternates mainstream rock records with experimental stuff.

I highly recommend everyone listen to his new CD because it's the kind of thing I wish OLP would do, which is sit down, plan out a heavy alternative rock album, and then make 10 solid songs that don't stop rocking. It's probably the best alt-rock record to come out since the 90s. I know OLP still has it in them based on their live shows, but I wish they'd stop making songs by committee and actually plan some of it out. Getting a new producer was a good first step, but this time they should sit down and actually say ahead of time "this time we are making a hard-rock record" or "this time we are making an experimental electonic-tinged rock record" or something like that. I think they would end up with better results than trying to fit varying styles onto a single album. CDs like Naveed or Spiritual Machines had underlying styles and themes. Even Gravity did, even if it wasn't original or complex. But since then it's been haphazard, and I hope they correct that.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby xjsb125 » 10/9/2013, 12:07 pm

Man I can't stand Vancouver on the whole. Hopefully I can order Arrows this week, I love Had It Coming. I think the planning of an album might be easier for Matt because it's his album, and he can drop band members as he wishes, as has happened non-stop for the last 7 or 8 years. For OLP, its an album that belongs to 4 people, and they all want to have some input and influence. I think that got a lot easier for them with Curve. I think mostly I hope that whatever album they make, they really work hard and enjoy creating. I think the more enjoyment an artist has producing work, the more it shows in the final product.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby gibbits » 10/9/2013, 4:30 pm

I can relate to the first post, though I will say if I take all the post-mike albums together I can probably make an awesome OLP album out of some choice cuts from the last four. A lot of what they put out since SM hasn't hit my ear like they used to. There is no question it's watered down despite what new fans try to say.

I want to make clear Steve is a much better guitarist than Mike, though I think Mike probably fits the OLP sound better - unfortunately for people who feel that way personalities don't always meld as well as music seems to. It would be so cool if Mike would come back and do rhythm and let Steve do lead, but that will never happen.

The first four albums are legendary. the band has been confused but figuring it out since Gravity wasn't exactly what they wanted. Curve was a huge step back in the right direction after how boring HIPT and BB were, though both had some good tracks as an album they were cohesively weak. Because of that I agree the next album should have an end goal before they create. Something tells me the next album is going to be what we've wanted for the past thirteen years.

Who knows what will happen in the future. OLP has not floored me since SM, but I did like Curve enough to call it a good direction to proceed in. The Clumsy/SM tour was fantastic and OLP will always be a band I keep my eye on, waiting patiently for a day which may never come when an album can rival the first four. I'm okay with that never happening, but I like living in a world where it is a possibility. These days they may not make my top three, but they hold a place in my heart and I do know they are capable of great things, but damn if they haven't been hung up on dynamics for over a decade.

If nothing else, us old dogs can wait gleefully for that b sides compilation that was supposed to come out before Gravity - I'm sure that album will be a blast for all of us old school fans whenever it finally sees light of day. In the meantime, let's keep our fingers crossed for what we want and let the young fans enjoy what they like. After all, the current configuration of OLP has been around longer than what we remember lol, and most people at these boards joined post-Gravity.

INB4 trusty calls us curmugeon 90s-alt rock fans ;)

EDIT - note that the majority taking you to task joined after 2003 :)
Last edited by gibbits on 10/9/2013, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby myownsatellite » 10/9/2013, 4:42 pm

govtschemes wrote:Well, I am a fan who hates their new sound.


I don't know why you think you're some expert with all this insider information that apparently we don't have even though members here talk to the band regularly and have had all these discussions before...but you sound like a pretentious ass.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby govtschemes » 10/9/2013, 11:23 pm

No I just hate pretentious music, and the loss of Our Lady Peaces alternative sound makes music in general worse and not for the better.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby xjsb125 » 10/10/2013, 7:09 am

Again, you are fortunate to have 4 really great albums you love, and the ability to listen all those alt rock albums from that time period. You also have the ability to simply not listen to everything from Gravity forward. Don't sweat what you can't change.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby RileyLewis » 10/10/2013, 12:50 pm

To xjsb125:

I agree about Vancouver. It has some good parts, and a few great tracks, but overall was one of Matt's weaker solo albums. However, thematically it was very consistent in sound, and some people enjoyed it, so I can't knock people for liking it even if I didn't as much. Trust me that Arrows of Desire is one of his best ever. One song in particular (Garden of Knives) is knock-your-socks-off great, it's so strong and intense. He really knocked it out of the park with the studio editing on this one. Whereas Vancouver felt kind of hollow with some empty spaces, this one feels rich with sound. I also agree that he has much more luxury in terms of the creative process than OLP. He does all the writing and instrument planning himself, and then simply hires his live band (which changes every few years) to help him record (and provide input as well). What I like (and what lots of people don't know) is that most of the guys from the original Matthew Good Band have rejoined him over the years to play again and help create music. That's awesome.

To Gibbits:

I agree that OLP is moving in the right direction, even if they have quite found their creative stride yet. Curve was a good step, and while it's not as thematically solid as the first 4, it's got some good songs. One thing I'd like to see OLP get back to is trying out more experimental sounds. Create a 6-minute track with only 2 choruses but with massive intros and exits (something I love about Matthew Good). I still feel like OLP is stuck in the "2-verses and 3-choruses with a bridge" format. They need to really sit down and plan out a full album and what they want to accomplish. Their abilities (minus Raine's vocals and perhaps Jeremy's drumming patterns) are still as good as ever, but I want them to push themselves again. And I want them to actually sit down for a month and make an album instead of the off and on way they've been doing it. But like you and others have said, even if their next album sucks or they stop making music, at least I have the first 4 which I love, and some good (if not great) more recent stuff.

To Govtschemes:

Before you spout off too much about knowing-for-sure what is their problem, take the time to read their actual history here and elsewhere. You are making a few assumptions that are blatantly false. Many here will agree with you that their new stuff doesn't match up to their old stuff, but try being less of an ass about it, and try to actually fit in and discuss things reasonably without sounding like you know more than everyone else here.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby govtschemes » 10/10/2013, 4:16 pm

No I am not lucky, because music in the 90s was alternative mostly, and it was what was most popular, at least on the radio.

Now what is there? You would think Our Lady Peace since they are so ahead "considering they do an album on a book by ray kurzweil" - they would stick to what makes them unique and not get sucked into the vortex which is the music industry.

But they threw away everything that made them unique and sold out to Bob Rocks ideas.
As far as I know Mike Turner blames the record label and Bob Rock for making him leave, and I agree with him!
He started the band, to me its stupid. I gave Our Lady Peace a chance on gravity and the follow up, but after that I had lost interest.

Burn Burn, should of been called "Escape Artist", what kind of title is "Burn Burn" anyway? surely they are above such juvenile basic minded ways of thinking.

Same with Curve - what a boring album title. The worst of it was Burn Burn should of been released in 2007, because it sounded like it took 2 weeks to record, but it took them till 2009? and its only 10 tracks.

That is embarrassing for a band that released 4 albums in 5 years.

Sorry, it doesn't cut it with me. They used to be one of the most creative alternative rock bands and now they just sound like they are doing it for the money.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby xjsb125 » 10/10/2013, 9:13 pm

It's a good thing you were in the band at that time and knew exactly what happened. Mike's quote on the whole situation was "we weren't happy making music together, and now we're both happier making music apart." Mike never once hinted at, inferred, or directly stated that Sony or Bob Rock made him leave. As for Burn, Burn...it's part of a line from Kerouac. Kerouac is some juvi shit for sure. The gap between Naveed and Clumsy is just shy of 3 years. They record on their own timetable now. Convenient for us, no. For them, yes. In '95 those guys didn't have families to take care of. They could tour 300 days a year and have no worries. Now all of them except Steve have wives and children. They're at a point they don't have to release an album every year if they don't want to, and they don't have to hit the road for 200+ days a year. They definitely aren't raking in millions on album sales either...and that doesn't bother them one bit. As we've said, you can always just listen to those first 4 albums, plus Crash Karma's 2 albums, and be happy forever. You don't like Gravity or anything after that, burn the motherfuckers. Burn, Burn them. Haha, you see what I did there? Nobody's forcing you to listen, and you have the good fortune of being able to turn it off. That will benefit us all, because we could all give a fuck less about your opinion with every passing day. But thank you for being enough of a troll to stir up some conversation.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby saman » 10/10/2013, 9:22 pm

i don't get it. it's good to have healthy discussions on topics, but is this the only reason you signed up for this board? to complain about how you don't like olp's sound anymore and how much you dislike steve?

well heck, at least people are talking again.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby xjsb125 » 10/10/2013, 9:22 pm

RileyLewis wrote:To xjsb125:

I agree about Vancouver. It has some good parts, and a few great tracks, but overall was one of Matt's weaker solo albums. However, thematically it was very consistent in sound, and some people enjoyed it, so I can't knock people for liking it even if I didn't as much. Trust me that Arrows of Desire is one of his best ever. One song in particular (Garden of Knives) is knock-your-socks-off great, it's so strong and intense. He really knocked it out of the park with the studio editing on this one. Whereas Vancouver felt kind of hollow with some empty spaces, this one feels rich with sound. I also agree that he has much more luxury in terms of the creative process than OLP. He does all the writing and instrument planning himself, and then simply hires his live band (which changes every few years) to help him record (and provide input as well). What I like (and what lots of people don't know) is that most of the guys from the original Matthew Good Band have rejoined him over the years to play again and help create music. That's awesome.


Who is back from MGB? I saw the Flood Aid concert at Milos was the only person I recognized. I thought Pat was coming back on drums, or was that just for the album? I think the thing that turned me off about Vancouver was it just seemed like he was bitching about Vancouver on a lot of songs...which I know he was down on the city during the Olympics, thus the theme of the album, but damn. My two favorites are Avalanche, and Hospital Music. I think Hospital Music is so great, especially knowing the back story to it. I ordered Arrows today, I'm looking forward to hearing it.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby govtschemes » 10/10/2013, 11:39 pm

Well I heard someone who said they met Mike Turner at a Crash Karma show, and he told them that Bob Rock and Columbia records were the ones who influenced the band to do away with their previous sound.

I am sorry but I obviously like Our Lady Peace alot more than you people - maybe I just hate 98 per cent of most music since the year 2000 - but I never really started buying Our Lady Peace records until 2002, up to then I had just been listening to them on the radio, and I really didn't like Gravity at all.

So its bitter for me, because just as I think Our Lady Peace were getting to their best - they go and take years of and start releasing mundane music, some of it unbearable.

Well whatever - can't wait till the next one......
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby saman » 10/11/2013, 7:04 am

govtschemes wrote:I am sorry but I obviously like Our Lady Peace alot more than you people


.... :uh: :freak:
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby Tinman » 10/11/2013, 7:51 am

govtschemes wrote:Well I heard someone who said they met Mike Turner at a Crash Karma show, and he told them that Bob Rock and Columbia records were the ones who influenced the band to do away with their previous sound.

I am sorry but I obviously like Our Lady Peace alot more than you people - maybe I just hate 98 per cent of most music since the year 2000 - but I never really started buying Our Lady Peace records until 2002, up to then I had just been listening to them on the radio, and I really didn't like Gravity at all.

So its bitter for me, because just as I think Our Lady Peace were getting to their best - they go and take years of and start releasing mundane music, some of it unbearable.

Well whatever - can't wait till the next one......

Bob did push the band in a different direction, but it was the Band's decision to work with him in the first place. They wanted a new angel, and Bob could provide that, and he did, and it was very-very successful.

Trust me, plenty of us are die hard fans of all varieties here, you're nothing special. The difference between you, and say, me, is that I went through the same grieving process you're experiencing, and eventually came to the point where I could chose to take the 4 albums and walk away disappointed at the rest of the bands work, or I could reevaluate their music and get something out of it. So, it's really your shitty perception thats the problem here. The band changed, and it's a shame if you were attached to the old sound, but they definitely have made some powerful songs since the departure of Mike. If you really like OLP more than most people, I suggest finding away to appreciate what they are doing. Or don't. Your call man.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby faninor » 10/11/2013, 10:40 am

Tinman wrote:I could chose to take the 4 albums and walk away disappointed at the rest of the bands work, or I could reevaluate their music and get something out of it.

When someone says that they hate practically all music released since 2000, something tells me that it's probably not due to the state of the music industry, but rather it is their own fault. They've picked their favorites, settled down, and nothing new will ever compare. Even if OLP were treading the same ground over and over again like Crash Karma, I bet this guy would like it because its style reminds him of some favorite music from the past, regardless of how good or terrible the material actually is. I'll take OLP's new directions, even the failed attempts, over Crash Karma's watered down Spiritual Machines wannabe sound any day of the week. At least they're attempting something.

The quality of the trolling is quickly going downhill here.

govtschemes wrote:But Spiritual Machines to me is an extension of that album, and you could tell they were toning down their sound to go into the Gravity album.


But just before that:

govtschemes wrote:To say Bob Rock doesn't have influence over Our Lady Peace is foolish, he does, because I have yet to see Our Lady Peace even return to their experimental style of music they were doing on the first 3 albums.


So.... what, exactly, does that mean? Bob Rock's influence over OLP started a year before they ever worked together, and continues to this day, 8 years since they last worked together? And yet The Hunters Lullaby (the first thing Raine released after working with Bob) somehow is one of your 2 favorites in terms of Raine's vocals (one of the key things that Bob supposedly ruined). Tell me how that works? Don't you think that maybe Raine's performance on that album is so great because he was trying something new and interesting that he felt passionately about?
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby olpgirl5 » 10/11/2013, 1:22 pm

xjsb125 wrote:Again, you are fortunate to have 4 really great albums you love, and the ability to listen all those alt rock albums from that time period. You also have the ability to simply not listen to everything from Gravity forward. Don't sweat what you can't change.


This. But I don't think they know when to stop. Where is the popcorn eating smiley? :heythere:
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby govtschemes » 10/11/2013, 5:58 pm

Like I said, its more Steve Mazur. Thats why I said Raine Maidas solo album was so different or more similar to our lady peace of the past.

And its not my perception, its just a fact. The Music industry changed alot in the early 2000s with its ridiculous campaigns and things, and Our Lady Peace brought into it....like I say, they do an album based on Ray Kerzweil (which was Mike Turners idea anyway) and then Mike leaves and they go and chase record label markets, and I think Bob Rocks influence over the band goes further than just "A change in sound."

If you really knew about what Ray Kurzweils books are based on, you'd know that record labels would not approve of that kind of idea being used on a popular band. Because record labels are run by higher authority people.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby xjsb125 » 10/12/2013, 7:02 am

Ray mostly writes and speaks on artificial intelligence and their applications to lengthening human life, or the possibility that they become self aware. Nothing to do with higher authority. 1984 deals more with artificial intelligence and authority...which was written by George Orwell. Executives signed off on Spiritual Machines. If they didn't, it wouldn't have been released. The band also had plenty of commercial backing for it. TV specials where the majority of the music played was SM, singles, music videos, tours. The general population just didn't connect with SM like they did with Happiness. In The Age of Spiritual Machines is a deep book, and not an easy read. Die hard fans really got it and understood the concept. It's my favorite album and I doubt it will ever be topped. However, so many others never got the concept. My wife doesn't like the album, but really likes Burn, Burn. It's all subjective to the listener.
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Re: WTF happened???

Postby gibbits » 10/12/2013, 8:13 am

govtschemes wrote:I am sorry but I obviously like Our Lady Peace alot more than you people - maybe I just hate 98 per cent of most music since the year 2000 - but I never really started buying Our Lady Peace records until 2002



So wait, you're mad about the more commercial slant of the last decade-plus like Riley and I - except you didn't start buying albums until after they changed their sound? Dude, you're a big part of the problem, they didn't see your money until in your eyes they turned to trash.

Blaming Steve for the direction OLP took is hillarious! Yes, the guitar style is different! That doesn't mean he's calling the shots, he's still the newest member for christ sakes. If anything the decision-maker is Raine...

I don't even know what you're talking about with Spiritual Machines? Ray is a nutcase who wants us all to upload our brains to computers, but I don't see how the record company would want to keep that on the down-low.

Riley you and I agree far too much, I need to say something to offend. I love Hello Oskar son.
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