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Airport security

Postby faninor » 11/16/2010, 1:14 pm

John Tyner is pretty awesome. Found this article in Google News yesterday morning and ended up reading every single one of his blog posts.

http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html

When I read about these new machines a few months ago I thought fine, next time I fly I'll just opt for a patdown. Didn't know I would be signing myself up to be fondled. But everyone will be safe and secure from the hordes of terrorists lurking in every major airport's parking lot, waiting for the day that America drops their defenses enough so that they could board an airplane, the one place in the world where their evil plans can possibly be realized.

On the other hand, being a person who has recorded concerts with and without permission for the past 7 years I know pretty well that less intrusive patdowns are not effective. I've even had a few that were pretty invasive, and my (recording) equipment was touched but the security person did not seem to notice.

On the third hand, some people claim that the airport patdown is non-intrusive, as long as you aren't acting in a way to draw attention to yourself.

On the fourth hand, some kind of realistic body suit could get you through the invasive patdowns too, I imagine. Entering an airport in disguise just might be <a href="http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/11/young-asian-boards-flight-to-canada-in-eerily-lifelike-disguise-as-elderly-male/1">crazy enough to work.</a> Especially if the objective is just to hide something on your body rather than to give yourself a new face.

Thank you airport security, for making me feel less secure (against an unlikely threat) while simultaneously violating my privacy. Hypothetically, anyway -- I don't really fly very frequently at all.
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Postby Tattooed Angels » 11/16/2010, 6:49 pm

I do not have a problem with the scanners. When I came back from Toronto last March I went on the scanner line by accident. There were only 2 people on that line vs the 10or so more on other 2 lines. After about 10 minutes I wondered why it took so long for two people. I was told it was scanner line and they checked all baggage.They use a special cloth and wipe the inside of your bag. Same thing the police use here when checking people's bags before entering the subway. The woman asked me did the agent send me to line. I told her no. Just came on cause it was shortest. She then told me that if I went to other lines I would have to go through a second set of security again. I went through scanner. No big deal. I made a joke like if shows up on YOUTUBE I want royalites. That does not bother me. They stamped your ticket and you can go to your gate. When I went to go the other man said you need to go to security. I said just came through scanner. He looked at my ticket and let me through..

What bothers me is the rule that now they can pat you down with their hands( instead of a wand). I am against anyone touching me like that. They claim will only be done if something is a miss-but who is to say what is amiss. They can do what they want and you have no say. I just am very uncomfortable with some stranger feeling me up like that..I did not have a problem with the wand. Never used on me really. Though I did have a few incidents where they checked all your luggages etc. One of those random things..

BTW those leaving oout of JFK and Newark airport wil now have to go through scanners. Not sure if on domestic or internationaly only.

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Postby xoNoDoubt69 » 11/16/2010, 6:59 pm

when i flew back from england, i had to do the full body scanner. this was after i had already went through the metal detectors.
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Postby DG » 11/16/2010, 8:46 pm

The Terrorists are laughing their asses off as they control us like puppets because we "fear" them so much and do crazy shit like this.
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Postby faninor » 11/16/2010, 9:34 pm

I think my main concerns are --

Health. I don't think there's any way to determine the impact of using the backspatter x-ray aside from just waiting 20 - 40 years. They're supposed to emit very low doses of radiation, but What guarantee do we have against them being misconfigured or broken? I would only really want to go into one of these machines under the supervision of a professional radiological technician who understands science and knows what they are doing.

Privacy. I don't particularly appreciate the idea of someone seeing the shape of my naked body. Or the shape of childrens' naked bodies. Eventually someone's image will end up online without their consent. The claim is that the ability to store images on these machines have been disabled, and that's a HUGE relief because there's no way that the image shown on a monitor can be captured. Nothing like a built-in camera on any modern phone.

Implementation. These are being implemented as a metal detector replacement in the USA. Metal detectors actually DETECT something. You walk through, and an alarm goes off if security needs to take action. Backspatter x-ray doesn't detect anything, it just makes an image. It's left solely up to a human to detect anything unusual. A human working in a separate room, viewing the images and communicating to staff in the screening area if they detect a threat. A human who may not like his job, or may be overworked and tired, or may be distracted by the size of the tits on his coworker's monitor (trying to pick the best ones to send for the additional patdown which can still happen after you go through the backspatter x-ray), or may be taking a nap, or may not even be there at all. At least in the UK it makes sense as an added precaution in addition to metal detectors which do the detecting on their own and alarm the operators of threats automatically. It really seems like a step backwards in terms of security. Which would be absolutely fine with me if it didn't come with health and privacy concerns attached. The day the security checkpoint becomes truly effective is the day the terrorists target the crowded security checkpoint line. Because they're obsessed with airplanes
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Postby Joe Cooler » 11/17/2010, 3:56 pm

faninor wrote:I think my main concerns are --

The claim is that the ability to store images on these machines have been disabled, and that's a HUGE relief because there's no way that the image shown on a monitor can be captured. Nothing like a built-in camera on any modern phone.


Not necessarily the case. http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans[/url]
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Postby faninor » 11/17/2010, 6:12 pm

Yep.

As a side note, those were a different technology than what the airports are using and their images and don't take an image with nearly the same level of clarity.

But even supposing they're configured correctly not to save the images, cameras still exist. Are they pretending it's difficult to take a photo of a monitor?
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Postby Kicker774 » 11/18/2010, 11:22 pm

What I hate most goinh through security is when they run out of bins and everybody panics. Including the TSA guys.

People will say there are no more bins and one TSA guy tells them just go ahead and put your bag down without the bin. Then the next guy down yells at the person for not using a bin.

They all look at each other when they figure out for the 147th time today someone needs to take the stack of bins on the far end of the conveyor belt and roll them 30 feet back to the beginning of the line.

Oh and god forbid a civilian takes action into their own hands rolling the stack of bins across the isle from the line that's not being used at the moment.

It's probably some union thing.
Good god don't get me started on unions.


But otherwise I think 2 times the past 8-10 weeks I've been flying out to NYC, I've been pulled out of line to go through the x-ray machine.

First time I had papers in my pocket and was firmly told (After going through) not to have ANYTHING in my pocket. So I had to be patted down and there was a quick half second crotch check.

Second time around I didn't have any papers or anything on my person. But this time around my hands weren't high enough.

Good god people I'm an average white American Caucasian male aged 25 - 34. Traveling in standard business casual wear. Last I checked there hasn't been an attempted tie-bomber or Khaki pants bomber.

And for cryin out loud would you quit picking on the senior citizens. Their confused and bewildered enough at the airport. No they didn't check the internet tubes to read the latest rules on what they can take aboard a plane. No they don't watch the evening news that tell us about this stuff. Their too busy watching Matlock.

I do not feel safe that a TSA agent could stop a threat in progress. Their 1 step higher than a mall cop. Along the same level as a meter maid.

The only difference is that when we buy that airline ticket that automatically waives our rights to be treated like a person. So you best respect the TSA agents authoritai.


I think that's enough ...

Good thing my project is coming to an end. I'll probably never fly again once this rant goes viral. :P
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Postby faninor » 11/19/2010, 2:10 pm

Kicker774 wrote:The only difference is that when we buy that airline ticket that automatically waives our rights to be treated like a person. So you best respect the TSA agents authoritai.


Don't think of it like that, think of it like this:

Every time we fly, our government is DEMANDING that we WAIVE our rights described in the 4th amendment to the United States Constitution.

They don't word it like this. If anything, they will just say you agree to complete a security screening before flight.

Actually, I just checked on priceline.com and couldn't find anything in the ticket-buying process that mentioned completing a security screening as terms for flying. It's common sense to expect security and I'm sure individual airport websites have better descriptions, but they're perfectly happy to take your money before you know what you're agreeing to.

They should state it accurately:

When purchasing your ticket you are waiving your 4th amendment rights.

There have been instances when the TSA has broken the 6th amendment by detaining and interrogating people without allowing them access to a lawyer.

If the TSA fines John Tyner, I would say the 8th amendment is broken.

For everyone who is too scared to stand up to the TSA (and from John Tyner's blog it seems like there are plenty), well clearly the 1st amendment is not protecting these people because they know the TSA is out of control and holds the power.

The only one that should be controversial is the 2nd amendment (the right to bear arms) -- but the 2nd amendment has plenty of controversy on its own. I'm not sure how I feel about it in respect to air travel. I expect that if this rule were left up to the airlines/airports, travelers would choose the airlines that did not allow carry on guns, and ultimately any whose policies did allow weapons (let's just call them Air Texas) would have to change. Air Texas would need to change their policies, or be forced out of business, based on customer feedback. But due to the way airports are structured with centralized security but many airlines, it's just not realistic for each to try to enforce their own completely different security policies.

From another perspective, I don't think the 2nd amendment was meant to address the circumstance when all people you may encounter have been screened, stripped of their weapons, and put into a contained environment. But then there are the Federal Air Marshals, who do get guns. Why put a prohibited item on an airplane? After we've passed the unbeatable security screenings there's no reason.

Anyway -- these are the same rights that our government is supposed to protect. Fundamentally, the government doesn't exist to seek out and fight terrorists, they exist to protect our rights and the TSA should only exist and act in a capacity that doesn't threaten our rights.

Why not just equip all airplanes with tear or knockout gas, so pilots can put everyone out of commission when a passenger gets rowdy? This sounds extreme, but I'm sure when we get to this point, it will be for our protection.

Or just leave the cabins de-pressurized. We'll have to suffer altitude sickness, decompression sickness, and barotrauma. But as shown by the backspatter x-rays, the TSA is here to protect our lives, they do not care about something as trivial as health.

Those are wildly unrealistic scenarios. But when was the last time the government asked to check your genitals, visually and/or manually, for signs of weapons? Will syrup of ipecac be added to the process so they can check the contents of passengers' stomachs as well?
-Josh
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Postby kyks17 » 12/8/2010, 9:54 pm

all this and soon the seats will be standing room only. please let me fall over myself trying to buy my overpriced ticket to my standing "seat" after i jump thru x rays and molestations???? probably no.
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