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Postby Johnny » 1/30/2009, 6:02 pm

I don't even know what to say right now, thats how much of a clusterfuck this place has become. It's gotten to the point where I feel that I don't even want to be a part of this place anymore. There are things I want to say to people and about people, but the fact that there'll be consenquences prevents me from doing so.

And matt, I am genuinely hurt that you would think that I would drop N-Bombs in front of future co-workers and it does NOT mean I feel that way about a certain group of people. Do you think my moral character is that low? How I act in my private life with my good friends will have no bearing on my professional life. I'm just messing around with friends and if I somehow offend one of them, then I stop. Simple.
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Postby xjsb125 » 1/30/2009, 6:07 pm

My apologies for that. I should have hit you up on MSN and talked about it. I'll take you at your word. You've never given me a reason not to.
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Postby Lando » 1/30/2009, 6:09 pm

xjsb125 wrote:Geez, I'm glad I didn't have a stressful day at work. I don't know that this should have been split off, since I thought that myself, Neil, and Lando were all heading towards being on the right page. Now there is more chaos. Fighting breeds fighting. I think I said that somewhere, but not before stealing it from someplace else. Sarah and Saman did what they thought was best in my absence. Please don't fault them for that. I actually like the title because it sums up the topic at hand. I can see both sides of the argument about it, but I think it fits. I'll try and work backwards here.

Brian, agreed with part of what Neil said, no need to kiss ass. You don't have a dog in this fight, or car in this race, I think the latter is for you, but thank you for stating your opinion. I probably will make the decisions that I think are best, and that are in the interest of keeping peace on the board.

I make mistakes from time to time, and if I'm called out on them I'll man up and admit it. Hopefully I've established that in the last day. Laurel stated their is a hierarchy here, and I would say that is true, and has been for a long time now. I am absolutely more partial to those of us out on the East side, probably because I have met most all of them in person, and have had great experiences with them all. On the other hand, I have yet to meet any of you from Alberta/Saskatchewan/Minnesota in person. I have no real idea what you are like on the other side of the screen. Hopefully someday I get to. I've also never met Sarah or Saman. I think that lack of personal bonding alienates to a degree. So we feel that friendship on a different level, and naturally feel inclined to defend our buddies until the end. I'll probably always feel more inclined to side with those I'm close to, just as Laurel will feel inclined to side with Lando (as an example).

Neil, you misspelled pedestal. I thought one of the girls would have caught that. You're slipping!

On the subject of criticizing OLP, your opinion is welcome. I think it would be taken better if some of the comments broke down exactly what it is that isn't liked about the song, instead of general comments. Do you not like the lyric structure, the guitar, Raine's voice, the drums, is Duncan's hair getting too thin and no one really wants to say something about it, etc? Pointing the blame at Bob Rock and saying the Mike was the reason they lost what they had is a tired and worn out argument. Not a single one of us sat in on those sessions where the music was made, or sat with them in front of Sony, so it's not a fair method of assessing blame. The evidence seems to point in that direction, but no one will know for sure. In short, make your criticism, but please break down your case so everyone can understand.

If any of you have personal issue with someone else, please, please, use the private message system and duke it out there, or have rational discussion about the problem. I can't read what you say in PM, nor can anyone else. There you don't have to worry about having your stuff deleted or moved. Don't take it to the point of harassing the other person. Talk it out like the adults that all of you are, with the exception of Shanae and Jen, though they are pretty mature for their ages.

What it all boils down to is, we all want to come here as a means of enjoyment and expressing ourselves. Please give each other the respect you want in return. Myself, Josh, Sarah, and Saman (and Melissa and Al when they visit) will do our best to keep things friendly and fair.

Thanks for voicing what you have to say. Now get out there and win that trophy for old Oskar!



Matt, now there's a post full of honesty. It at least puts the truth out there like it should be, even when other moderators try to say that I'm talking shit or try to shy away and aim the conversation away from the facts. Truthfully, that's the best and most relevant post in this split thread. bar none.

however, I do not agree with some of the things you've said previously. such as how I basically shit on you the first time we talked. that was years ago man and everyone else who knows me and knew me then, knows i'm very goofy and lighthearted and joking most of the time, so yeah i made up a nickname for you based on the mixed lettering of your screenname, it wasn't meant to be mean or insult you or for you to think I think any less of you when i created that nickname, it was just how i was joking around with you, which i've explained to you in the past on more than one separate occasion. That being said, I can't believe you'd hold a grudge for so long. it's very petty and small that you'd still hold this type of grudge after so many years, especially when it wasn't serious and it was just people joking around on the hub.

other than that, great last post sir.
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Postby xjsb125 » 1/30/2009, 6:12 pm

No, I don't hold a grudge. I was pissed that first day! After I figured out it was just you being funny, I got over it.
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Postby Neil » 1/30/2009, 6:30 pm

Matt,

We were on the right path to shutting up; you're right. I'm sorry that I disagree with you on the title of the split topic. I see your stance on how you feel its appropriate, but to myself it was almost like the argument was turned into a joke. I don't feel this is funny at all.

And yes the latter was to Brian. I even kept it clean, so all of you be proud of Neil for a moment. Brian had no reason to even open his mouth. I will openly listen (in a serious discussion) to anybody who has merit to the argument, or to a mod (to an extent) being that they have a technical connection to you being in active control of the forum. With that said I still feel as though there is a skewed level of mod control. In the past, people have looked at Laurel, or Lando (even today!) or Johnny. Or the countless others that have come and gone through the CM as instigators. While at times (not always so don't misinterpret me) these such people that actually DO speak up were clearly NOT the instigators. Instead are victims of complete bullshit because somebody else cried or bitched their way into getting THEIR point seen as valid. Not both sides.

I can see where meeting people in person can alter how you may treat them on the board. Even so, as the operator of this website (and the one with primary control over mod actions) ultimately everything falls to you. When a mod 'effs up; it makes you look bad. You're right in saying that we've never met, Matt, and kick ass if it ever happens. Even still, I would expect the same regard for somebody new such as Shanae as somebody as veteran or as educated as many of us are. Hold somebody you haven't met in that same spectrum as somebody you have. No matter how close you are to them. If I felt the need to defend you....I would in a heartbeat. Even if it were over somebody I'm closer to (i.e. Johnny). And I would expect Johnny to do the same. If I wrong'd somebody and it bothered Johnny. I would CERTAINLY hope like hell that he would drop me a msg on IM or on xbox live and be like "dude, you fucked up".

And oops to my misspell. I'm typing way too fast for my own thoughts to be coming out. I think that's my issue sometimes... Plus I've been too busy trying not to go comma crazy.

Now, to OLP. Matt, again, I don't agree with you. Whether its a 7 year old issue or not that should not matter. When I made my post, also, I quoted a chunk of that mag article that was posted. I think an argument is an argument. We're not in college. This isn't a research project. If somebody wants to tell me Gravity sucks (*cough* Johnny) without much more reason than that; so be it! That's your opinion. Rock out to it! If I have something to say. I'll say it. If somebody said they miss that guitarist from Naveed who's name I don't even 'effing remember. Then great!! Shed a tear for him. I just don't see the point in asking members to put research into their argument. Now, if you wish to disagree with a point I make... So be it. However, don't make me feel as though at that point I am to cease and desist my rationalization. (i.e. "beating a dead horse") Anybody is fully entitled to making their point with no merit; however, that point without merit is only riding risk of being flamed. Being flamed is one thing, too, but being belittled is another.

Ultimately.... Some people don't want to take their argument to the PM's or whatever because they want to be seen and heard. Some people currently do feel singled out and now shy away from speaking their mind for fear of retaliation. And that's disgusting.

I think I covered everything.... If I left anything out it's because Johnny was shouting obscenities in Hebrew on Xbox Live. And while taking a poop. Because he's multi-talented like that.
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Postby xjsb125 » 1/30/2009, 8:22 pm

:duncan:

We'll all make mistakes and learn from them. I'm hollering cause I hear ya! *flex*
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Postby saman » 1/30/2009, 8:27 pm

firstly,

Neo wrote:I think I covered everything.... If I left anything out it's because Johnny was shouting obscenities in Hebrew on Xbox Live. And while taking a poop. Because he's multi-talented like that.

:wtf:

secondly, i heart you too neil! and hey, new sig!
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Postby crustine » 1/30/2009, 8:49 pm

i love these debates but the white on black is hard on my old eyes :( and Neil the new sig burns my retinas. Oh i cant wait for you all to hit middle age so you can understand.

Seriously i have really enjoyed reading this thread - everyone is very articulate.
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Postby Neil » 1/30/2009, 9:01 pm

saman wrote:firstly,

:wtf:

secondly, i heart you too neil! and hey, new sig!


You think I'm joking!? You should've heard some of the stuff Johnny was saying!!! It was madness! And grunting at the same time because he was trying to work out his lunch. Must have been a monster...

Ok. I took it too far. I'm sorry for the graphic image. Johnny muttered something about a koala and I signed out....

Haha and yeah.... I've been diggin' Kanye lately. Bout the only person in that genre I can tolerate anymore.
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Postby nikki4982 » 1/31/2009, 12:13 am

Hang on. Neil, you have issues with me because I didn't like you calling Steve a horrible name (the guy's never been anything but an absolute sweetheart to me, and yes, I'll stand up for him because he's not here to defend himself), and because I used the "beating a dead horse" analogy that's pretty much been synonymous with the Gravity argument for probably 5 or 6 years on this board (the image is even coded ":gravity:")?

And, while you guys haven't called me out by name in here (I don't think), I'll do it because it's been bothering me. Lando and Laurel, I've never had a problem with you guys. Then you ganged up on me in several threads in a row, so I called you out on it. Then you felt it necessary to turn it into something huge, call me names, and generally freak out, when the only reason I said it was because I hoped you hadn't even realized you were doing it and maybe you'd stop. There was no reason to go after me because my old computer couldn't handle Johnny's multiple animated gifs and I kindly asked him to change them. And I don't even remember what the other thread was, but I remember your reaction to my post(s?) because it caught me off guard because I'd always liked you guys.

I'm sorry, I find the fact that you're all uber pissed off about these little things very hard to believe. This goes deeper. I don't know what on earth I did to make you hate me so much, but maybe you should just get over it, or ignore me all together. I'm me, and I'm not gonna stop being me.

Honestly. I'd always considered all of you guys friends. But I guess I was wrong. Shame.
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Postby Neil » 1/31/2009, 2:51 am

nikki4982 wrote:Hang on. Neil, you have issues with me because I didn't like you calling Steve a horrible name (the guy's never been anything but an absolute sweetheart to me, and yes, I'll stand up for him because he's not here to defend himself), and because I used the "beating a dead horse" analogy that's pretty much been synonymous with the Gravity argument for probably 5 or 6 years on this board (the image is even coded ":gravity:")?


Nikki the problem I had with that situation is that you immediately made me feel like I was supposed to shut the hell up. Of course you didn't say that, but that was how I felt you were trying to come across. Maybe I misunderstood or over-analyzed. Fine. But I didn't hear anything from you regarding it. So its fine. Its over. Its done. I'm letting it go. My shot at Steve (I'll refrain from repeating what I called him) was completely sarcastic and I'm sorry you took offense. Yes, I do feel that Steve has lacked in proving himself in the band, but that's only my personal observation; I don't expect anybody to share the same sentiment. I only met the guy briefly and we only exchanged hello's, so its not like I have any type of personal grounds with him to use.
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Postby Dr. Hobo » 1/31/2009, 6:48 am

i just have one thing to add to all of this:
i hate you all :sugar:
go fuck yourself.
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Postby xjsb125 » 1/31/2009, 5:13 pm

I hate you too, but only if you mean it in clean way and not the dirty way.
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Postby Dr. Hobo » 1/31/2009, 5:26 pm

clean? dirty? what? keanu reeves?
go fuck yourself.
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Postby Gimme_Shelter » 1/31/2009, 6:07 pm

Dr. Hobo wrote:i just have one thing to add to all of this:
i hate you all :sugar:



but im still in love with you

and im not one to argue or fight about anything, ever
that is all
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Postby Neil » 1/31/2009, 11:47 pm

Gimme_Shelter wrote:and im not one to argue or fight about anything, ever


I'm deeply offended by that. What pisses you off? I need to push buttons...
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Postby Dr. Hobo » 2/1/2009, 1:40 am

Gimme_Shelter wrote:
Dr. Hobo wrote:i just have one thing to add to all of this:
i hate you all :sugar:



but im still in love with you

and im not one to argue or fight about anything, ever
that is all


damn.. leave it to a leafs fan to love me :happyno: :crazy:
go fuck yourself.
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Postby crustine » 2/1/2009, 7:14 am

Dr. Hobo wrote:
Gimme_Shelter wrote:
Dr. Hobo wrote:i just have one thing to add to all of this:
i hate you all :sugar:



but im still in love with you

and im not one to argue or fight about anything, ever
that is all


damn.. leave it to a leafs fan to love me :happyno: :crazy:


isn't that like having brown stuff stuck to the bottom of your shoe?
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Postby Dr. Hobo » 2/1/2009, 8:38 am

:lol:
go fuck yourself.
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Postby Gimme_Shelter » 2/1/2009, 2:37 pm

i cant believe you would laugh at my love
im deeply hurt
i thought we had something special
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