Lets debate (Part One): Abortion

[Neil]

I wanna start some fire in here....

Topic one is: abortion.

What is your position? What are your reasonings??? I hope we can make this interesting, but fair and open-minded.

I'm curious to know how the CM'ers feel.

[saman]

hmm, i kinda don't know where i stand on this. i do believe it's wrong to take human life, no matter how old it is, but i also believe that women should get to choose what happens with their life, and having a baby is a life-changing decision

[Lando]

I personally think humans value their lives too highly among all of the animals in the world. Yes we are the smartest species, but we're also the most damaging to our own atmosphere and other life forms. We destroy other animals for aesthetic purposes rather than for necessity to survive. So I think that if we as humans can kill animals, even for food and we're taking those lives without any moral confliction, that we should look at how self-centered the human race really is. It's almost as if every lifeform below humans is insignificant. This type of negative outlook on life in general will probably prove to be self destructive in the long run.

I do agree with Saman though because I think it's wrong to take human life and that any life lost is a tragedy, however at the same time I believe that things like stem cell research is incredibly important and will improve our medical science by bigger leaps and bounds than pretty much any other discoveries currently being explored. I'm also someone who's a meat eater and don't have any moral dilemma with it, so that should mean that my value or respect for supposed "inferior" animal species must not be that high, but it actually is.

I think it's that I'm more disgusted with the mindset of majority of the human race than anything else. That they'll base a lot of their opinions on life and death on religion or what is more socially acceptable rather than realizing that many of these things end up being a hindrance and actually take away people's freedoms rather than help us advance and focus on things that are important to us personally as individuals.

So in that regard, I'm definitely pro-choice on the abortion issue. Because I think that people who would consider abortion an option or have been in the situation where it was necessary have been looked at by society as monsters. That they don't have the same respect for life as the people who believe it's an absolute evil. Yet these people who are passing judgement might kill for sport or for food or have no problem with the fact that they can eat the flesh of another animal without feeling badly because they themselves might not have killed the animal, or they have the knowledge that the animal was born and raised specifically to be a food source for humans. That animal still had a life, but somehow many of these things are overlooked so that people can sleep at night.

This is also why I made mention of what's "socially acceptable" I think that we need to decide what's right for us as individuals so that we can live our lives to what we feel is our fullest, while we still can. If people feel abortion is wrong, it should only be wrong for them and they shouldn't judge those who believe in having these types of freedoms. Pay attention to your own lives and what's important to you instead of always looking outward. The freedom of choice in general is really what would be taken away. And if we as a society were ever forced to believe in only one acceptable method of resolution for certain controversial subjects like this one, that would just be another freedom taken away, because everyone's opinion (which should always be free!) would be completely disregarded for what the higher powers such as Government feel we should conform to. Which in turn would mean that there would have to be a law for it to be absolute.

However, this type of subject will always be difficult to ever turn into a law because there will always be people who can argue and rightfully defend both pros and cons of the subject matter. So creating a law would essentially exile everyone whose opinions differ from the law that is set in place.


AAaaaaaand I shouldn't have checked this topic because that's waaay too much to be writing at 6:00 am!

[Lando]

wow, you guys really suck at debating!

[AnnieDreams]

My debate coach told me to never debate abortion!
Be it resolved that this is a bad topic!

[Lando]

I think it's fun.

[saman]

i contest that!

[Lando]

Now you're getting it!

[AnnieDreams]

Point of Order!

[Neil]

I think its a little narrow-minded to be pro-life.


*feels somebody getting ready to tweek*

[Neil]

I think its a little narrow-minded to be pro-life.


*feels somebody getting ready to tweek*

I'm so kidding. See, I'm torn on the issue. See, I can see where both sides are coming from. One hand, you're taking away a life; if you wish to get technical, it could be considered murder. Other hand, the birth of this new life COULD (in fact) be worse for the newborn. Depending on the environment it is born in to.

See, I would not want a child to be born to a selfish, crack addicted, mother. That is a circumstance where I feel that abortion should be fully allowed. However, I see no reason that a young woman should be allowed to abort a child......even though she's been having unprotected sex with like four guys, and just does not want the responsibility.

My opinion....if you're young, and willing to take the risk by having sex, then you shouldn't be able to abort the child.

I think abortion should be allowed on a case-by-case basis. How exactly you determine all the cases that should or should not be allowed; that I do not have an answer for.

[Neil]

QUESTION:


How many people feel that hookers should be able to have an abortion?

Keep in mind, some women are hookers because they are desperate for money, and feel that they have no other choice. They are going to feel like they have full rights to having an abortion; they are only looking out for what is best for themselves. However, they are having unrestrictive sex with any guy paying the right amount of money.

[beautiful liar]

I think abortions should be permitted, no restrictions. A rich woman who made a mistake has the same right as a young hooker, who has the same right as a rape victim, who has the same right as any other woman to have an abortion.

If abortions were illegal, they'd be done anyways the way they used to; woman would have no protection from shysters trying to make a quick buck, would have abortions in unsafe conditions, and potentially harm themselves in the process. It would be a regression.

If there was a way to carry a fetus to term without it having to live parasitically off the mother, then there would be no need for abortions. Until then, I don't see why more unwanted children should be brought into the world when there are already so many. Let's take care of the children who have been born, and not worry about the ones terminated before self-awareness has even developed.

[Neil]

I think abortions should be permitted, no restrictions. A rich woman who made a mistake has the same right as a young hooker, who has the same right as a rape victim, who has the same right as any other woman to have an abortion.

I agree, there. If its a mistake. However, what if it is a woman who is just having premiscuous sex (over and over, different partners) with complete and total wrecklessness. Do you feel they should have full right? I mean, they rightfully caused themselves to get pregnant, so to be able to abort that birth. Does it seem like that is fair?

You're right. One way or another; a mother could abort their child. No matter what is done; society can not stop a mother from ditching their newborn in a garbage bin or some other disasterous method.

A major point for pro-lifers is that there are hundreds of thousands of possible women and couples who are looking to adopt on a daily basis. In that case, why not give birth to the child? You could then allow that child to have the possibility to do great things, and have a great life. You know what I mean?

I'm sounding pro-life, but I'm totally not.

[beautiful liar]

If the woman is promiscuous she still should be allowed abortions. If she can live with herself doing that, it's her decision. No one should be able to stop her from aborting that baby.

If there are hundreds of thousands trying to adopt, why are so many children stuck in a foster system that leaves them uncared for? Why are so many babies in other countries kept in hospitals never claimed, in orphanages unlooked after...I don't think there are really as many people looking to adopt as there are adoptable children out there. I really don't think forcing women to carry their babies to term will change the adoption status quo - it will leave more children in underfunded foster child situations.

[Neil]

The foster care system is a disaster. There is little activity as far as putting these children in homes.

The kids that my parents took in, when I moved out of Minnesota, are a prime example.

That's a bit too deep in my life to fully discuss, though.

[beautiful liar]

A relevant article about abortions in Poland that I just read:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6470403.stm

[crustine]

interesting that there seems to be a focus on the extremes. also in my expereince it seems that the young permiscuous girls are the ones who have their babies.

there is a bill i believe in georgia trying to be passed that makes mothers about to abort look at the sonograms. THe idea behind this is that abortion is the only medical treatment that the patient is not made aware of the outcome of the test. It did go on to say that the woman would have th choice to look/listen to the results of the tests.

i am definitely pro choice, I dont feel that I am in a position to sit in judgement of anyone elses choices about their life and body.

[faninor]

I think its a little narrow-minded to be pro-life.


*feels somebody getting ready to tweek*

I'm so kidding. See, I'm torn on the issue. See, I can see where both sides are coming from. One hand, you're taking away a life; if you wish to get technical, it could be considered murder. Other hand, the birth of this new life COULD (in fact) be worse for the newborn. Depending on the environment it is born in to.

See, I would not want a child to be born to a selfish, crack addicted, mother. That is a circumstance where I feel that abortion should be fully allowed. However, I see no reason that a young woman should be allowed to abort a child......even though she's been having unprotected sex with like four guys, and just does not want the responsibility.

My opinion....if you're young, and willing to take the risk by having sex, then you shouldn't be able to abort the child.

I think abortion should be allowed on a case-by-case basis. How exactly you determine all the cases that should or should not be allowed; that I do not have an answer for.

Well, I think there are laws out there to help protect kids who are born to selfish crack addicted mothers. I'm sure growing up like that or in a foster home because your crack addict mom lost custody of you could suck... but that's life. Not that many people have a great time for their entire life and there are plenty of good people out there who didn't have a very good childhood.

Anyway... my opinion:

I think that pro-choice is more desirable from an ethical point of view but I don't think it should be part of law. A desperate mother-to-be would still do whatever necessary in order to abort her child, so it just makes sense to allow her to do it legally. This way, at least the abortion clinics can have standards that will make it safer for her.

Fun side topic:

Pro-choice is a liberal concept. Animal rights and people who are vegetarians because they think it is not right to kill animals is also more common among liberal peoples.

But how do pro-choice vegetarians feel about eating an aborted fetus? I only know one who said he'd be willing to try it.

[think_about_it]

An interesting point to throw into this...there have been studies which link the legalizing of abortion in the 70s to the crime rate drop in the 90s.