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Military Commissions Act, important articles

Postby Axtech » 10/19/2006, 10:55 pm

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Postby Korzic » 10/20/2006, 1:07 am

I have mixed feelings about all this. But here is my view...

If this did not exist... and America was struck by another incident of 9/11 proportions... would we be having this discussion or would we be questioning why the Govt. did not do more?

But now this act is here you ask why the Govt. is doing this and it's an impingement of freedoms. If this act nets 1 would be terrorist who would have taken his ideals and slaughtered everyone in a kindergarten because they did not belive in what he believed in... what would you prefer on your conscience? The deaths of 30-40 children under the age of 5? or the internment of "suspected" terrorists who may or may not be innocent?

Some of those men in Gitmo, fought against the very ideals that the left bleats out. Freedom of speech and all that. The Taliban does not support this, they oppress women, they oppress freedom of religion and support the wilfull destruction of human lives by threatening unarmed civilians with no chance to defend themselves?

I for one am glad, that I live in the times where the United States is the world's lone superpower. Sure they make mistakes, but in 50 years when it is surpassed by the Chinese, which would you rather be under. That which supports the ideals you crave? Or that which couldn't give a toss about human rights at all.

I know that I'll probably get torn to shreds for this... but I expect to given that I'm the black right wing sheep in a flock of lefties :) No offence to any of you :)
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Postby LifeRiot » 10/21/2006, 10:54 am

Korzic wrote:I have mixed feelings about all this. But here is my view...

If this did not exist... and America was struck by another incident of 9/11 proportions... would we be having this discussion or would we be questioning why the Govt. did not do more?

But now this act is here you ask why the Govt. is doing this and it's an impingement of freedoms. If this act nets 1 would be terrorist who would have taken his ideals and slaughtered everyone in a kindergarten because they did not belive in what he believed in... what would you prefer on your conscience? The deaths of 30-40 children under the age of 5? or the internment of "suspected" terrorists who may or may not be innocent?

Some of those men in Gitmo, fought against the very ideals that the left bleats out. Freedom of speech and all that. The Taliban does not support this, they oppress women, they oppress freedom of religion and support the wilfull destruction of human lives by threatening unarmed civilians with no chance to defend themselves?

I for one am glad, that I live in the times where the United States is the world's lone superpower. Sure they make mistakes, but in 50 years when it is surpassed by the Chinese, which would you rather be under. That which supports the ideals you crave? Or that which couldn't give a toss about human rights at all.

I know that I'll probably get torn to shreds for this... but I expect to given that I'm the black right wing sheep in a flock of lefties :) No offence to any of you :)



If another 9/11 happens....nah, I think our govt is running out of ideas on how to attack ourselves. Screw it,bring out the National ids and strip searches at airports. It is for our own good, if you're not with us you're against us

/sarcasm
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Postby menomena » 10/21/2006, 2:04 pm

Well, if another 9/11 happened, it would be our own fault, as America was constantly warned about what was going to happen. I thought everyone agreed that we continuously ignored the threats and warnings until it happened, then we tried to cover it up. It's not like random acts happen, these things are planned then telegraphed.

By the way, America's reign as an intellectual superpower officially ended with Bush's presidency. Since then, it's been a gradual decline. We would rather pass kids through for the sake of self-esteem than actually get to the root of their learning problems. Our smartest, best, and brightest are leaving and succeeding elsewhere, while we export all our jobs to other countries for corporate profit.

Our intelligence has dwindled, and our economic power is going the same way. Face it, we're not the superpower of the world anymore. No one is at this moment. With the way China is expanding usage of their country at the moment, we'll be an afterthought in 20 years.
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Postby LifeRiot » 10/21/2006, 2:24 pm

I dunno, the official story is complete bull crap to me, 9/11 they had practice exercises happening for the same scenario, 7/7 they had almost exactly the same practice scenarios as what happened that day. The chances of that actually happening ever, but yet happening with in a couple years of each other is like 1 in a number that a supercomputer would take a month to count up to.
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Postby nelison » 10/21/2006, 9:36 pm

LifeRiot wrote:I dunno, the official story is complete bull crap to me, 9/11 they had practice exercises happening for the same scenario, 7/7 they had almost exactly the same practice scenarios as what happened that day. The chances of that actually happening ever, but yet happening with in a couple years of each other is like 1 in a number that a supercomputer would take a month to count up to.


I think that's bullshit to be honest.

conspiracy theories aside, it isn't hard to link both bombings to actions taken by the nation these terrorist attacks occured in. The US has always had it's nose in the middle east, while Spain (ya you forgot to mention Spain which was even bigger than 7/7) and Britain were in Iraq and were warned that attacks would be imminent.

It's fantastic to question your government, but to base your entire argument on conspiracy is sad.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.

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Postby LifeRiot » 10/21/2006, 11:50 pm

J-Neli wrote:
LifeRiot wrote:I dunno, the official story is complete bull crap to me, 9/11 they had practice exercises happening for the same scenario, 7/7 they had almost exactly the same practice scenarios as what happened that day. The chances of that actually happening ever, but yet happening with in a couple years of each other is like 1 in a number that a supercomputer would take a month to count up to.


I think that's bullshit to be honest.

conspiracy theories aside, it isn't hard to link both bombings to actions taken by the nation these terrorist attacks occured in. The US has always had it's nose in the middle east, while Spain (ya you forgot to mention Spain which was even bigger than 7/7) and Britain were in Iraq and were warned that attacks would be imminent.

It's fantastic to question your government, but to base your entire argument on conspiracy is sad.


I could go forever on why my opinion is coherent and pretty much obvious. 7/7 alone is laughable if you look at the evidence, I love how they practiced bombings on subways that day right before it happened, and i also love how the metal under the trains blew up from below the trains and base looked like a flower as if it was already planted although the apparent bomb looked like it was in his bag and witnesses descibed his reaction as "shocked" when he looked in his bag.

I could go on forever.

But I will hang out with the WMDs we found in Iraq, and the ship we allowed Isreal to attack in there week war on the middle east.
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Postby Axtech » 10/22/2006, 12:00 am

I love how a thread about the abhorrent destruction of the freedoms and liberties upon which your country was founded has turned into a debate that's not only off-topic, but has been debated a thousand times before.

And in 20 years we'll look back and wonder how nobody noticed or cared...
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Postby nelison » 10/22/2006, 7:46 pm

well Robbo, seeing as I'm Canadian I don't care all that much. If/when it happens it Canada I will care, but I can honestly say that this act doesn't surprise me.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.

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Postby Axtech » 10/22/2006, 11:18 pm

doesn't surprise me either, but Canada usually isn't too far behind the US. and injustice is injustice, no matter where you live.
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Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down
, I'll find the way to peace and openness.

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Postby nelison » 10/23/2006, 3:46 pm

as much as I said "when" above, I really have to disagree that Canada usually isn't too far behind the USA. I think if we look at the measures taken by the US with regards to the Patriot Act, other anti-terrorism legislation and the Military Commissions Act, it would be quite the stretch to find anything similar Canadian legislation. Yes, we have an anti-terror act but it is by no means as severe as anything put forth by the US.

I'll touch on this again later when I have more time...
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.

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Postby Axtech » 10/23/2006, 3:54 pm

well yeah, it's not like changes like this are right around the corner, but if this sorry trend continues in the US, I find it hard to believe that Canada will just putter merrily along without similar (albeit likely less drastic) action.
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Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down
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