)Canadian government - management of Lebanon evacuation
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by Kathy » 7/24/2006, 4:26 pm
definitely a coincidence... I don't waste my time writing to papers (and especially not the Metro )
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by starseed_10 » 7/24/2006, 4:37 pm
what's more embarrassing is that nobody's making an effort to stop Israel from bombing the crap out of them.
Not that i disagree with you but Canadian citizens are no more important than the rest of the people getting killed.
Not that i disagree with you but Canadian citizens are no more important than the rest of the people getting killed.
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by Joe Cooler » 7/24/2006, 11:15 pm
He's wrong, but don't think for a second that there can be such a thing as a "measured response" when it comes to war. "Measured" simply does not exist in conflict. If Israel went out and captured a few Lebanese terrorists and killed a few civilians to "get even" that certainly would not of been measured either. People still die, lives are still ruined. The fact is, Lebanon committed an act of war and Israel responded. In all seriousness, what would have been a correct response? Don't get me wrong, I disagree with war, but situations like these are no place for idealists.
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by Kathy » 7/25/2006, 4:49 am
"In all seriousness, what would have been a correct response? "
Are you directing that question to me? I don't have an answer and I agree with what you said. My issue is that it was the poorest choice of word that Harper could have possibly used.
Are you directing that question to me? I don't have an answer and I agree with what you said. My issue is that it was the poorest choice of word that Harper could have possibly used.
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by crustine » 7/25/2006, 5:57 am
starseed_10 wrote:what's more embarrassing is that nobody's making an effort to stop Israel from bombing the crap out of them.
Not that i disagree with you but Canadian citizens are no more important than the rest of the people getting killed.
actually Condaleza Rice is making great strides in bringing the two sides together.
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by Joe Cooler » 7/25/2006, 7:18 am
Kathy wrote:"In all seriousness, what would have been a correct response? "
Are you directing that question to me? I don't have an answer and I agree with what you said. My issue is that it was the poorest choice of word that Harper could have possibly used.
No, it was just a general statement. It was not directed at anyone.
- Joe Cooler
by nelison » 7/25/2006, 8:23 am
crustine wrote:starseed_10 wrote:what's more embarrassing is that nobody's making an effort to stop Israel from bombing the crap out of them.
Not that i disagree with you but Canadian citizens are no more important than the rest of the people getting killed.
actually Condaleza Rice is making great strides in bringing the two sides together.
Ya I'd imagine that's going well...
"Hey Lebanon, we want there to be peace in the middle east and get this thing over with... just ignore the fact we sold the Isrealis the weapons they're using to bomb you to smitherines"
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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by Kathy » 7/27/2006, 7:43 am
Not evacuation related but along the same lines....
"Peacekeepers, including one Canadian, were killed when a bomb hit their post in the town of Khiyam, near the eastern end of Lebanon's border with Israel.
Prime Minister Harper offered no condemnation of Israel for the deadly bombing and instead suggested that the United Nations should not have put the men in harm's way."
?
One of the dead peacekeepers is from China and I much prefer that government's response. Instead, Harper blames the dead for being in harm's way.
"Peacekeepers, including one Canadian, were killed when a bomb hit their post in the town of Khiyam, near the eastern end of Lebanon's border with Israel.
Prime Minister Harper offered no condemnation of Israel for the deadly bombing and instead suggested that the United Nations should not have put the men in harm's way."
?
One of the dead peacekeepers is from China and I much prefer that government's response. Instead, Harper blames the dead for being in harm's way.
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by goleafsgo » 7/27/2006, 8:51 am
I still don;t like the folks with dual-citizenship, lived in Lebanon for 10+ years, paid 0 taxes to Canada... and yet, still get a ride out. That's pisses me off.
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by Kathy » 7/27/2006, 5:31 pm
okay yeah, but I thought we had moved past that issue... most people agree we have a dual citizenship problem in Canada.
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by Bandalero » 7/28/2006, 9:40 am
i want dual citizenship in Canada.
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let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
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by bobbyzcar » 7/31/2006, 7:35 am
Dont want to get into a pollitical war of words here, but the truth is, you gotta be pretty stupid to stay in areas where there is a war. And I say that abotu both sides...Israelis in Haifa that get killed basically committed suicide by staying and the same goes for the Palistinians who have Hezbullah firing rockets form there houses and get killed when Israel sends a smart bomb ot the target of the rocket launch and get killed..WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE? Why have your childern where the Katushas are being launched from when you know that they turn into a target. I totally agree with the US that Hezbullah needs to be wiped out so would all the Lebanese that dont want to be kille dplease get out of there...Jews have never ever once bombed or committed a terrorist attack against any Germans. Rather they have moved on, progressed and have provided the world with brilliant minds and advancmenets in all fields. Yet hezbullah seems to be stuck thinking more baout how to kill Jews then advancing there country.
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by nelison » 7/31/2006, 7:41 am
so umm... should your little rule have applied to WWII? I mean a mass evacuation of London during the blitz... where would they go considering everywhere was being bombed to rubble?
Hezbullah should be wiped out? So essentially you would rather most Lebonese go without schools and health care right? Hezbullah surely shouldn't be wiped out, but simply de-militarized.
Also, the Jews haven't needed to act aggressively towards the Germans, or any other anti-Jewish regimes... they have the Americans to do that for them.
Hezbullah should be wiped out? So essentially you would rather most Lebonese go without schools and health care right? Hezbullah surely shouldn't be wiped out, but simply de-militarized.
Also, the Jews haven't needed to act aggressively towards the Germans, or any other anti-Jewish regimes... they have the Americans to do that for them.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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by bobbyzcar » 8/1/2006, 11:54 am
No I woudlnt apply that to WW2. I'm applying it to this situation. Lebanese can move north, just like Israelis can move south to get out of harms way (trust me, I was just in the middle east on a mission and you do not have to be in the crossfire), but they insist on letting Hezbulah fire rockets from there homes with them in them. You have to be pretty stupid to do that knowing that the Israelis are using GPS smart bombs that are fired to the exact location where the bomb departed from.
I'm not talking political who is right or wrong, I just dont have much sympathy for the innocent people who are making a concious effort to stay in harms way...on both sides
As far as social services go, the Lebanese government should be restructured so that they dont depend on terrorists to fund the country.
And you comment about Jews not commiting terrorist attacks on Germany because the States do it...Yah your right sorry, I always hear of Americans running into public places in Germany with bombs attached to themselves.
If you look at the entire area (as I said earlier, I just got back from a mission in the middle east) you would notice that Iraq, Palestine, all these places look like shit (except where the very few wealthy live) while Israel is lush, thriving and honestly beautiful. Some places just refuse to advance. And then spend all there time blaming others why rather then making changes.
I dont wan tot say that I favour one side in this war because war only happened because both sides are stupidly stubborn, but I do notice things about each country.
I'm not talking political who is right or wrong, I just dont have much sympathy for the innocent people who are making a concious effort to stay in harms way...on both sides
As far as social services go, the Lebanese government should be restructured so that they dont depend on terrorists to fund the country.
And you comment about Jews not commiting terrorist attacks on Germany because the States do it...Yah your right sorry, I always hear of Americans running into public places in Germany with bombs attached to themselves.
If you look at the entire area (as I said earlier, I just got back from a mission in the middle east) you would notice that Iraq, Palestine, all these places look like shit (except where the very few wealthy live) while Israel is lush, thriving and honestly beautiful. Some places just refuse to advance. And then spend all there time blaming others why rather then making changes.
I dont wan tot say that I favour one side in this war because war only happened because both sides are stupidly stubborn, but I do notice things about each country.
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by nelison » 8/1/2006, 2:52 pm
bobbyzcar wrote:No I woudlnt apply that to WW2. I'm applying it to this situation. Lebanese can move north, just like Israelis can move south to get out of harms way (trust me, I was just in the middle east on a mission and you do not have to be in the crossfire), but they insist on letting Hezbulah fire rockets from there homes with them in them. You have to be pretty stupid to do that knowing that the Israelis are using GPS smart bombs that are fired to the exact location where the bomb departed from.
And while a mass evacuation might seem realistic to you, it isn't all that realistic of a situation when you consider the economic and social issues involved. Let's look at last summer's Hurricane Katrina where a city of similar size to Haifa was given days notice of a massive hurricane. If people were unable to leave there, how would you expect even poorer Lebonese individuals to leave their homes? Or is it a case that you didn't feel any sympathy for those people who didn't leave New Orleans?
While from a thrid party perspective it might seem as though they should leave instantly, you can't possibly know what it is like to leave your belongings and possessions until you are in that situation.
I'm not talking political who is right or wrong, I just dont have much sympathy for the innocent people who are making a concious effort to stay in harms way...on both sides
Is this only applied to this situation? Because if this applies to everything you could say that you have no sympathy for people living in South-eastern USA where hurricanes are devastating; or Oklahoma where tornadoes are a normal occurance; or Chinese rivers that consistently overflow; or Rwanda, Congo, and Somolia.
Maybe it is the case that you're selective with your beliefs. I mean why should anyone choose to live in the middle east? It's like they're just asking for trouble.
As far as social services go, the Lebanese government should be restructured so that they dont depend on terrorists to fund the country.
And you comment about Jews not commiting terrorist attacks on Germany because the States do it...Yah your right sorry, I always hear of Americans running into public places in Germany with bombs attached to themselves.
"terrorists" fund every country. It only depends on how you define the term "terrorist". Simply because Hezbullah is a terrorist group according to Bush and friends doesn't mean that they don't do more good than bad. In the eyes of those on the opposite side, Isreal might be considered a terrorist nation based on your definition. It's all a matter of perspective.
Also, perhaps I should have been more specific but while Americans do not go into Germany and bomb them for their actions in WWII, since WWII they have had a foreign policy that has revolved around protecting Isreal and harming any country that could be a potential threat. Germany is an exception on a long list of anti-Isreal forces throughout history.
If you look at the entire area (as I said earlier, I just got back from a mission in the middle east) you would notice that Iraq, Palestine, all these places look like shit (except where the very few wealthy live) while Israel is lush, thriving and honestly beautiful. Some places just refuse to advance. And then spend all there time blaming others why rather then making changes.
Why do you think Isreal looks great while the others look like shit? Money from the West maybe?
I also have a couple questions... where in the middle east were you and what was the mission for? I'm just curious to get a background from where you're coming from.
Also, I'm not a Middle East expert. I actually find Middle Eastern politics rather boring as a political science student. I just found your argument intriguing.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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by Korzic » 8/2/2006, 2:18 am
Jim, just 1 thing of note.
The same arguement could be applied to Hitler. He was not evil, he just wanted to make the world a cleaner place without Jews (which funnily enough is close to the doctrine of Hezbollah, Hamas and their benefactor Iran).
Israel is not after the complete destrcution of Iranians and Muslims but Hezbollah and Hamas and Iran are hell bent on the elimination of the entire race of Jews.
"terrorists" fund every country. It only depends on how you define the term "terrorist". Simply because Hezbullah is a terrorist group according to Bush and friends doesn't mean that they don't do more good than bad. In the eyes of those on the opposite side, Isreal might be considered a terrorist nation based on your definition. It's all a matter of perspective.
The same arguement could be applied to Hitler. He was not evil, he just wanted to make the world a cleaner place without Jews (which funnily enough is close to the doctrine of Hezbollah, Hamas and their benefactor Iran).
Israel is not after the complete destrcution of Iranians and Muslims but Hezbollah and Hamas and Iran are hell bent on the elimination of the entire race of Jews.
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by bobbyzcar » 8/2/2006, 7:31 am
Points take J-Neli. Rather then an all out argument, I'm happy that we are mature enough (unlike those in the middle east) to discuss rather then argue.
I for one DO feel MOST of those who were killed in Katrina did make there own destiny. I know many people who live in the area and they boarded up and left. In the days before the storm arrived you saw CNN showing pictures of people on there poarches waiting for the storm saying immature things like "I aint goin' nowhere. I'm gunna ride it out"...that wat totally by choice. They had days to get on a bus...that said, I do understand that if you have no family in other parts of the US it would be a problem to up and leave. (Same as in the middle east). I do feel for the victims still who lost everything...I'm not a cold harted bastard
Unfortunately now, it is too late for those who are stuck as Israel has landed troop in the North to prevent weapons arriving from Seria. So it looks like the are surrounding the whole country and will choak them.
AND although I agree with you that Israel gets a ton of money from the west (Jews around the world want Israel to prosper), Why dont wealthy Musslims from the west donate money to Lebanon/Palestine? Is it because they dont care, or dont agree with the countries policies? Israel is also one of the few countries in the middle east with no oil so it makes it even that more impressive that they have surpassed all other middle east countries in technology and advnacements.
I was in the middle east on a peace/aid mission working from Israel because it was simply too unsafe for a westerner to go anywhere else. Which is funny because In Jerusalem there are many Arabs walking around safely, but I could not help other regions for fear of my life and getting kidnapped. So even in my case...If I went to Iraq on a peace mission and got killed, I honestly beleive that you should not feel sorry for me because I would have known chances would be high that I could run into trouble.
Korzic...sup? I agree with your points in principal, but between us, you and I both know that although Israel would never attempt to say it publically, I'm sure most Israelies WOULD want the total distruction of Iran. Thye are just way too politically correct to say it in public. Unfortunately there is just too much hatred and contraditions in the middle east for a resolution.
I love OLP, but watching these leaders speak and contradicting themselves again and again reminds me of the American flag that Rain has shown lately with all major companies on it (I guess as a protest of large corporations)...but didnt they play a huge free concert a few years back sponsored by Best Buy? Oh wait, and how about that free concert I went to at Massy Hall that was sponsored by Rogers. Hey, I have no problem with large companies giving me free concerts...I hope Raine keeps on contradicting himself and keeps the sponsored concerts comming.
Unfortunately in the mid east both sides see each others demands as unreasonable so this war will only end when Israel is done cleaning house. And the two soldiers they went in to get, I fear they may be better off dead then the torture they may endure.
Again, thanks for the discussion and not an argument.
I for one DO feel MOST of those who were killed in Katrina did make there own destiny. I know many people who live in the area and they boarded up and left. In the days before the storm arrived you saw CNN showing pictures of people on there poarches waiting for the storm saying immature things like "I aint goin' nowhere. I'm gunna ride it out"...that wat totally by choice. They had days to get on a bus...that said, I do understand that if you have no family in other parts of the US it would be a problem to up and leave. (Same as in the middle east). I do feel for the victims still who lost everything...I'm not a cold harted bastard
Unfortunately now, it is too late for those who are stuck as Israel has landed troop in the North to prevent weapons arriving from Seria. So it looks like the are surrounding the whole country and will choak them.
AND although I agree with you that Israel gets a ton of money from the west (Jews around the world want Israel to prosper), Why dont wealthy Musslims from the west donate money to Lebanon/Palestine? Is it because they dont care, or dont agree with the countries policies? Israel is also one of the few countries in the middle east with no oil so it makes it even that more impressive that they have surpassed all other middle east countries in technology and advnacements.
I was in the middle east on a peace/aid mission working from Israel because it was simply too unsafe for a westerner to go anywhere else. Which is funny because In Jerusalem there are many Arabs walking around safely, but I could not help other regions for fear of my life and getting kidnapped. So even in my case...If I went to Iraq on a peace mission and got killed, I honestly beleive that you should not feel sorry for me because I would have known chances would be high that I could run into trouble.
Korzic...sup? I agree with your points in principal, but between us, you and I both know that although Israel would never attempt to say it publically, I'm sure most Israelies WOULD want the total distruction of Iran. Thye are just way too politically correct to say it in public. Unfortunately there is just too much hatred and contraditions in the middle east for a resolution.
I love OLP, but watching these leaders speak and contradicting themselves again and again reminds me of the American flag that Rain has shown lately with all major companies on it (I guess as a protest of large corporations)...but didnt they play a huge free concert a few years back sponsored by Best Buy? Oh wait, and how about that free concert I went to at Massy Hall that was sponsored by Rogers. Hey, I have no problem with large companies giving me free concerts...I hope Raine keeps on contradicting himself and keeps the sponsored concerts comming.
Unfortunately in the mid east both sides see each others demands as unreasonable so this war will only end when Israel is done cleaning house. And the two soldiers they went in to get, I fear they may be better off dead then the torture they may endure.
Again, thanks for the discussion and not an argument.
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