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Actual thread intended for discussion of censorship

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Postby I AM ME » 4/4/2006, 11:41 pm

I'm sayin this world needs a bit of common sense. Believe me I'm a champion of freedom of speach, anyone that knows me in person, knows I'll get very confrontational if i think my rights are being violated or I'm being mistreated by a person in authority. I drove 3 hours to take a cop to court over a ticket that I felt was wrong. I won that case too.

The thing though that I always take great satisfaction from is that I almost always stay civil and as un-offensive as is rational.Let the other person prove your superiority by diluting their argument with crude words and actions. Voicing your opinion in a logical, and civil way is of the utmost importance. People must be able to communicate ideas, disaticfactions, and theories no matter what.

BUT bigotry is NEVER unbiased or logical. therefore it has no place in any discussion. And if a person has the intent to offend, and attack then he is no longer partaking in discussion, and free-speach. He's is acting in a violent, agressive manner. It's all about the intent. For this reason I can say something makes me feel "gay", or I can discuss crime issues amoung Manitoba's aboriginal youth, because I have no intent of insult or harm.

That's all a detailed version of it, but the basic's of it is. YOU know when you're saying something that will be offensive to a person, and you should try and avoid it, or if debating something make clear your intents and choose your words carefully.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Postby mosaik » 4/5/2006, 3:01 am

I am not disputing the effects of clear conversation. I'm with you, the less you make the debate about your personal insults the more you stand a chance of actually winning it.

that said the most you can do to encourage other people to see it your way is just that: encourage them. you don;t have the right to do anything further.
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Postby crustine » 4/5/2006, 6:59 am

i believe that i am me has a very valid point; that to use aggressive means to coerce people to adopt your beliefs only back fires. So many protesters fail to see this as actually defeating their desire to be heard. In some regards it is the easy way to have your voice heard. The corrollory to this would to get involved, infiltrate the system and work from the inside out.

I spent alot of time creating policy from within to help childern of lesser means have access to camps and programs in my community. Had i simply complained it would not have made a difference. Instead i got involved sat on the board and drafted the policy.

So yesh Mosaik encouragement, but encouragement from the perspective of what you want to change. Become that person and find out how you can convice them to see otherwise.
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Postby I AM ME » 4/5/2006, 4:10 pm

mosaik wrote:I am not disputing the effects of clear conversation. I'm with you, the less you make the debate about your personal insults the more you stand a chance of actually winning it.

that said the most you can do to encourage other people to see it your way is just that: encourage them. you don;t have the right to do anything further.


agreed, that's part of what i was saying.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Postby closeyoureyes » 4/5/2006, 9:17 pm

My personal opinion, which I shall reiterate, is as long as it doesn't implicitly or explicitly suggest violence in any way, then no matter how bigoted and racist and homophobic and sexist it is, it can be said. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of whats socially acceptable speech, or freedom of what doesn't offend me speech.

Freedom of ALL speech whether I like it or not.
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Postby Olp_waited » 4/5/2006, 9:20 pm

I agree with you. I have my opinions and my morals and beliefs, but just because I think something is right or wrong doesn't mean it is. Freedom of speech gives us debates, gives us more critical thinking, and most importantly allows us to be more open minded.
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Postby I AM ME » 4/6/2006, 1:04 am

Ah but you already know my opinion on what makes a debate, and bigotry breaks those basic rules. As i said once a person begins to use bigotry, or begins to personally attack a person instead of the issue, they are no longer being open-minded as you say.

It's a trciky issue for me, because I still don't want to see laws, or censorship put into effect. What I would like to see happen was for people to go about their lives in a more respectful fashion, unfortunatly that seems to be immpossible to bring about other then encouraging it among youth.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Postby Olp_waited » 4/6/2006, 5:39 am

I don;t want to see laws either, and I agree to a point with you. Some people are going to be racist and are going to be bigots, but if its cool with them, and they are not physically abusing them or personally attacking them, then I see that there is nothing I can do about it.

I think you hit it right when you said to have people go on with life in a more respectful fashion
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