V for Vendetta

[Lando]

Like why V loves the original Count Of Monte Cristo movie so much.

Not to sound stupid, but why does he love the movie so much? I know they hinted at it in the movie. About how the guy cared more for vengeance then he did the woman that loved him, but I would like know more.

The character from The Count Of Monte Cristo, Edmond Dantes is imprisoned for seven (or 13 depending on the version) years because of his best friend and others who frame him, claiming he's a spy for the french. The entire time he's in prison his main focus/drive is to get revenge on the people who falsely had him imprisoned while his fiancee marries his friend, believing Edmond to be dead.

The reasons V is so obsessed with this movie is because his disfigurement, his mask is his prison. The only difference is that Edmond also had his love to hold onto while he was in prison the entire time. V however didn't have someone from the start which made him much colder or isolated, before he met Evey. He connects with the themes because it gives him motivation and purpose to live, which over the years becomes a bond that's almost unbreakable.

Both the original 1934 Alexandre Dumas film and the more recent 2002 remake starring James Caviezel and Guy Pearce are both great films. The 1934 is known to be the best version, but if you're really interested in the story, the novel is actually your best bet. It contains a lot of stuff both movies have to leave out.

[Lando]

Rusty was supposed to read that.

[Joe Cooler]

Saw the movie, liked the issues it raised, but didnt care much for the movie itself save for a few select parts.

[starvingeyes]

wow you're one of the first people i know or know of to have said that. why not?

[Joe Cooler]

The middle was a bit soggy. I thought it took unnecessary amount of time to develop the story. This is not a crack at the movie itself, I just didn't enjoy how it played out. Also, at times I felt manipulated into thinking a certain way. I can't really tell you why or how, just that I did. Of course, all movies attempt to point the audience in a certain direction but V for Vendetta felt.. a bit forced. Saying all that, I really did appreciate the points it brought up, even though I didn't agree or see the logic in all of them.

[starvingeyes]

the only thing i didn't undertand was the whole staged prison thing. i thought that was a bit implausible and leads to a lot of errors in consistency.

(spoilers blacked out for those who haven't seen it. just highlight.)

the forced thinking thing is also interesting to me, considering one of the things i liked about the movie was how V would answer most of evey's questions in a very open ended fashion. he wasn't trying to force her to believe anything, just trying to show her that the current state had to go.

[Joe Cooler]

I guessed that V was running the prison from the start. While implausible, it didn't bother me to much.

The part I felt was forced revolved around the back-story V related to Evey. (Correct me if it was someone else, speaking to someone else) Basically he said, "After the failure of the American war, a highly religious conservative party rose to power...ect ect ect) Maybe I'm alone on this one, but I thought itt was rather blatant. Only a fool wouldn’t realize the parallels being drawn. In this aspect, V made it out to be a completely black and white issue.

On a side note, I found it interesting that the homosexual host had a copy of the Koran. Perhaps it was included to suggest the oppression of other religions. However, if the parallel is to be drawn here as well, including the Koran is somewhat problematic, especially within the context it is found.

[starvingeyes]

do you mean because he's homosexual and that is forbidden in islam? (i don't know, i'm asking)

and you're right they did do that intentionally. in the comic, the party in power is the Nazi party, it's about what would have happened if hitler had won. the movie was most assuredly changed to make it about current events.

[Joe Cooler]

do you mean because he's homosexual and that is forbidden in islam? (i don't know, i'm asking)

Yes. In addition, it is well known that many Muslims are oppressed within the United States and UK. If the movies intent was only to make referance to the opression of muslims in the west then I find no problem in it. However, Islam, like most religion is certainly is guilty of opressing others, which is why I found it interesting that it was included, and in such a positive manner, especially within the confines of a homosexuals house.

[Lando]

I totally agree with you Taylor. That's why I said it was just good, but not great. It was so slow during the middle. Not with the whole backstory, which I was interested in, but how they kept going back and forth to the different people, but always saying or talking about the exact same thing. It was just repetitive and I understood what they were trying to say after the first few minutes during the middle of the film where they slowed everything down to keep jumping back and forth. Personally they could have just stuck with V the whole time. He was way more interesting to watch. The cops were boring as they tried to figure out who V was and stop him. At least they had him have a change of heart (or mind) by the end of the film.

[starvingeyes]

that's actually a good point and something that irks me as well. i don't like how people like to give islam a free pass on everything simply because muslims are the current target du jour.

however in this case i think it was simply included to demonstrate how the norsefire party was supressing religious freedom, especially since diedrich himself is not muslim.

[Joe Cooler]

I want to agree with you, and if it were any other film I probably would. However, it seems everything in the movie is pointing towards something specific. To use the Koran, a specific item, to represent the nonspecific idea of suppression is off to me. Especially given that Diedrich is homosexual. That Koran could of been in the hands of anyone else and the idea would still come across. In fact, it would have made a lot more sense if V owned it. Something is going on there, I'm just not sure what.

[I AM ME]

Maybe I don't remember the movie well enough, but he never says he's a muslim. He just simply has it as a show of defiance, and preserving something that was erased from the public mind. Kinda ike how it's so important for the character in 1984 to hold on the few scraps of truth and corruption he can from the state.

[Joe Cooler]

No, he's not a Muslim. The movie makes that clear. The thing is, the film makers could have used any other object to show how this character is defying the government, but they chose to use a Koran.

[Rusty]

Like why V loves the original Count Of Monte Cristo movie so much.

Not to sound stupid, but why does he love the movie so much? I know they hinted at it in the movie. About how the guy cared more for vengeance then he did the woman that loved him, but I would like know more.

The character from The Count Of Monte Cristo, Edmond Dantes is imprisoned for seven (or 13 depending on the version) years because of his best friend and others who frame him, claiming he's a spy for the french. The entire time he's in prison his main focus/drive is to get revenge on the people who falsely had him imprisoned while his fiancee marries his friend, believing Edmond to be dead.

The reasons V is so obsessed with this movie is because his disfigurement, his mask is his prison. The only difference is that Edmond also had his love to hold onto while he was in prison the entire time. V however didn't have someone from the start which made him much colder or isolated, before he met Evey. He connects with the themes because it gives him motivation and purpose to live, which over the years becomes a bond that's almost unbreakable.

Both the original 1934 Alexandre Dumas film and the more recent 2002 remake starring James Caviezel and Guy Pearce are both great films. The 1934 is known to be the best version, but if you're really interested in the story, the novel is actually your best bet. It contains a lot of stuff both movies have to leave out.

Ahhhh, now that makes a lot of sense. Thanks man, that's pretty awesome stuff.

[I AM ME]

No, he's not a Muslim. The movie makes that clear. The thing is, the film makers could have used any other object to show how this character is defying the government, but they chose to use a Koran.

They chose it because it's obviously a facist Christian nation, therefore other religions are supressed. The Muslim religion being the worlds second largest leaves it as the logical choice to use.

Besides, it's obviously speaking about current times Taylor. We get that. The whole movie is critisising western society, and paralelling current issues. It's a shot at the treatment of Muslims right now, you're right. Just as the prison's are the american ones now. The treatment of gays.....the whole movie is a shot at western culture.

We get this, and I don't seem to understand your problem with it. I know you have a problem with this because of your views, but honestly that's what the movie's about and it doesn't try to hide it.

The movie isn't a shot at the Christian religion, but rather the neo-con movement that is abusing the faith. If this whole movie was "anti-christian", you'd see a lot more of this kind of stuff, it tackles a ton of other current issues.

[Joe Cooler]

You know, I think you should read over what I've been saying because you've got me all wrong. I don't have a "problem" with the film at all. I certainly was not offended by the film and I really have no clue where you are getting that idea from. Perhaps you brought your pre-concieved ideas about me into this conversation. I am perfectly aware that the film is a reflection of modern times which is the exact reason I made the observation about the Koran. I just thought it was interesting that he film makers chose to put the Koran in the household of a homosexual because I can only see the ties to modern culture if both are viewed seperately, as the two would never be seen together in a modern context. Make sense? Lets hope so.

Goodness, did I even once mention that I was angered at the how the film depicted Christians? Did I take up arms at the shots the movie takes at Western Culture? If so, please point me to them. Really it seems you are the most offended person here.

[I AM ME]

I appologize, I did take preconcieved notions into this thread, and had a false "Here we go again" thought in my head, that I shouldn't have. I saw your intrest in the Muslim religion tied to the homosexual as a way of proving Muslim's arn't that great either, to defend the Christain image in a movie that stains it slightly.


Sorry that's a bit confusing, I'm having trouble articulating myself, I'm a bit tired.

I'd agree that they could have used many things to represent objection against the State. But the director simply chose the Koran because it was another of the many current issues he wanted to touch upon in current events. I don't t hink there was any big reason for it. But it's realy not that surprising though either. So he's gay, he didn't do it out of faith in the Koran, it was simply out of defiance that he saved it, and for the reason's I pointed out earlier. Saving a bit of the past and all that.

[Joe Cooler]

Fair enough. Perhaps it would interest you to know that my views have been changing quite a bit over this last year. Of course, there will always be certain issues I'll be hard lined about, there are others I no longer care for. For example, I no longer have any urge to defend the the christian conservative right. Many of the faults people find in them (and me) are certainly warranted. Why defend something I no longer adhere to. I'd rather defend the message of the Bible rather than those who so often pervert it. Anyway, I guess that was a long winded way of saying that I learn and grow like everyone. I'll try not to be close minded and I hope everyone will do the same in regards to me.

[I AM ME]

I really respect that. In tie to my Eastern Religion thread, I'd like to say that strangely through reading much on eastern religion it has introducted me much more to Christian teachings, and I agree with much of the Bible.

I haveno problem with Christianity, it's always been my opinion that it's own fanatics have always been it's biggest enemy. I believe what Jesus Christ taught was of great moral value, and I can't fault most of the Bibles teachings. My problem is that to often people take the Bible so literally that theymiss out on the true teachings and things they're supposed to learn. As a Buddhist saying goes, they're staring at the finger pointing, and not the moon.

Anyways, point is I'll readjust my views on you, and hope that you understand my quarral is not with Christianity, but rather those that abuse and misinterpret it.