No more smoking in New York State
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starvingeyes - Oskar Winner: 2007
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by Corey » 7/31/2003, 10:13 am
What if I'm a business owner, and I steal money from my employees' wallets when they are in my store. They accept the risk of that by working there so its ok right?
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#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
- Corey
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by nelison » 7/31/2003, 1:25 pm
I go to a restaurant to eat. Everyone goes to a restaurant to eat, not to smoke, there are thousands of other places to smoke. I don't go there to inhale smoke, and if I'm paying for a meal I don't want it to taste like I'm eating a cigarette. I don't want to leave the restaurant smelling like a chain smoker either.
You see as much as you hate the whole majority concept, 2/3 of people are non-smokers. Essentially the 1/3 who do smoke are harming those of us who don't by forcing us to inhale their cigarette smoke. Does it hurt to have somewhere where people can go and have a smoke-free meal? I don't think so.
Besides couldn't a smoker simply go 30 minutes to maybe an hour without smoking? I mean you would think they would have some consideration for those around them considering the health risks they're giving non-smokers.
Some facts about secondhand (passive) smoke
1. Contains more than 4,000 substances, more than 40 of which are known to cause cancer in humans or animals and many of which are strong irritants.
2.Secondhand smoking is estimated by the EPA to cause approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths in nonsmokers each year.
3. The EPA estimates that secondhand smoking is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age annually, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year.
4. Asthmatic children are especially at risk. The EPA estimates that exposure to secondhand smoke increases the number of episodes and severity of symptoms in hundreds of thousands of asthmatic children. EPA estimates that between 200,000 and 1,000,000 asthmatic children have their condition made worse by exposure to secondhand smoke. Secondhand smoking may also cause thousands of non-asthmatic children to develop the condition each year.
5. Exposure to secondhand smoke causes irritation of the eye, nose, and throat.
6. Passive smoking can also irritate the lungs, leading to coughing, excess phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function.
If that's not enough evidence as to why smoking shouldn't be allowed in public places than I really don't know what is.
You see as much as you hate the whole majority concept, 2/3 of people are non-smokers. Essentially the 1/3 who do smoke are harming those of us who don't by forcing us to inhale their cigarette smoke. Does it hurt to have somewhere where people can go and have a smoke-free meal? I don't think so.
Besides couldn't a smoker simply go 30 minutes to maybe an hour without smoking? I mean you would think they would have some consideration for those around them considering the health risks they're giving non-smokers.
Some facts about secondhand (passive) smoke
1. Contains more than 4,000 substances, more than 40 of which are known to cause cancer in humans or animals and many of which are strong irritants.
2.Secondhand smoking is estimated by the EPA to cause approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths in nonsmokers each year.
3. The EPA estimates that secondhand smoking is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age annually, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year.
4. Asthmatic children are especially at risk. The EPA estimates that exposure to secondhand smoke increases the number of episodes and severity of symptoms in hundreds of thousands of asthmatic children. EPA estimates that between 200,000 and 1,000,000 asthmatic children have their condition made worse by exposure to secondhand smoke. Secondhand smoking may also cause thousands of non-asthmatic children to develop the condition each year.
5. Exposure to secondhand smoke causes irritation of the eye, nose, and throat.
6. Passive smoking can also irritate the lungs, leading to coughing, excess phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function.
If that's not enough evidence as to why smoking shouldn't be allowed in public places than I really don't know what is.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
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by nelison » 7/31/2003, 1:48 pm
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
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by Sufjan Stevens » 7/31/2003, 1:49 pm
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
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- Location: Detroit, MI
by nelison » 7/31/2003, 1:51 pm
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
- Posts: 5660
- Joined: 3/16/2002, 9:37 pm
by Sufjan Stevens » 7/31/2003, 1:54 pm
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
by nelison » 7/31/2003, 2:05 pm
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
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nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
- Posts: 5660
- Joined: 3/16/2002, 9:37 pm
by starvingeyes » 7/31/2003, 3:14 pm
secondhand smoke has been scientifically and empirically proven beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt to bother people
that is all
murder, theft and the like, on the other hand, have been scientifically and empirically proven to directly harm people
you do not have the <i>right</i> to not be <i>bothered</i> by an activity which is occurring on private property with the permission of the owner. you do have the right not to be harmed.
furthermore, even if it were shown that secondhand cigarette smoke is harmful to your health, do not forget that you <i>choose to be there</i>, there being a place where smoking is permitted. you, as an individual, consider the costs (ie. health problems) vs the benefits of attending a particular venue (ie. fun) and then make your choice.
if you choose to go to a venue where murderers lurk, with the full knowledge that upon arrival, you will be <i>shot and killed</i>, then no, the murderer has not done any wrong. you gave him permission to shoot you.
employees at a bar agree beforehand to work there depsite smoking. they do not agree to be robbed. if they did agree to be robbed, then there would be no problem with them being robbed.
so, i repeat my question to the defenders of the law: from what logic do you derive the belief that you have the <i>right</i> to tell a private business owner what kind of activity he or she can permit on their own property?
i eagerly await your reply. non-sensical emotional pandering is not accepted.
that is all
murder, theft and the like, on the other hand, have been scientifically and empirically proven to directly harm people
you do not have the <i>right</i> to not be <i>bothered</i> by an activity which is occurring on private property with the permission of the owner. you do have the right not to be harmed.
furthermore, even if it were shown that secondhand cigarette smoke is harmful to your health, do not forget that you <i>choose to be there</i>, there being a place where smoking is permitted. you, as an individual, consider the costs (ie. health problems) vs the benefits of attending a particular venue (ie. fun) and then make your choice.
if you choose to go to a venue where murderers lurk, with the full knowledge that upon arrival, you will be <i>shot and killed</i>, then no, the murderer has not done any wrong. you gave him permission to shoot you.
employees at a bar agree beforehand to work there depsite smoking. they do not agree to be robbed. if they did agree to be robbed, then there would be no problem with them being robbed.
so, i repeat my question to the defenders of the law: from what logic do you derive the belief that you have the <i>right</i> to tell a private business owner what kind of activity he or she can permit on their own property?
i eagerly await your reply. non-sensical emotional pandering is not accepted.
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starvingeyes - Oskar Winner: 2007
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by I AM ME » 7/31/2003, 3:39 pm
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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I AM ME - Posts: 5956
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by Sufjan Stevens » 7/31/2003, 3:44 pm
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
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ihatethunderbay - Posts: 2244
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by I AM ME » 7/31/2003, 4:50 pm
, i also didn't mean you were turning it into a Anarchy thread, i was telling you guys not to start, and really is it a issue even? why does it matter to the owner in the first place, the reason it's universal is so that it's fair to people who wantto go smoke free. If you go smoke free and your competeion doesn't it puts them in a better position. Really, it's just something people need to get used to, nobody gives a damn anymore around here, and it's only been a year, it just takes getting used to. Like i said at one time you could smoe in hospitals, would any of you consider that now? No, because you've never been allowed to"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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I AM ME - Posts: 5956
- Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
- Location: Manitoba
by nelison » 7/31/2003, 6:12 pm
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
-
nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
- Posts: 5660
- Joined: 3/16/2002, 9:37 pm
by Sufjan Stevens » 7/31/2003, 6:22 pm
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
-
Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
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