Finally, a religion/anti-religion thread.
by Sufjan Stevens » 7/14/2003, 11:44 am
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
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by Sufjan Stevens » 7/14/2003, 4:37 pm
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
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by Sufjan Stevens » 7/14/2003, 10:10 pm
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
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by Brooklin Matt » 7/15/2003, 12:17 am
- Brooklin Matt
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by Narbus » 7/15/2003, 9:29 am
Last edited by Narbus on 7/15/2003, 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
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by Sufjan Stevens » 7/15/2003, 9:29 am
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens - Oskar Winner: 2005
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by mosaik » 7/15/2003, 9:39 am
i love fruit examples. Let's do yours again, Rob.
I have an apple. I say "this is an apple!"
That's a true statement. Now say you come along with a banana. You say "this is an apple!"
Now we have a contradiction. According to logic, we can't have contradictions. We must check our premises. One of us two is wrong. The round, red fruit can't be an apple if the long, yellow one is.
This is what we have here. Narbus has made it crystal clear that according to the bible, christians are people who believe that the only way into heaven is through Christ. "only" is not a subjective term open to intrepretation. "only" does not mean 'this thing plus some other things'. Only is finite, without anyone or anything else.
From my understanding, Mormons believe that you need more then just faith and love for Jesus to get into heaven. They believe that you need to live a certain way. According to the BIBLE, this isn't true.
So: how can people who believe in just Christ's forgiveness and people who believe in more then that be classified as the same religion? They can't! It's like apples and banana's, folks.
I have an apple. I say "this is an apple!"
That's a true statement. Now say you come along with a banana. You say "this is an apple!"
Now we have a contradiction. According to logic, we can't have contradictions. We must check our premises. One of us two is wrong. The round, red fruit can't be an apple if the long, yellow one is.
This is what we have here. Narbus has made it crystal clear that according to the bible, christians are people who believe that the only way into heaven is through Christ. "only" is not a subjective term open to intrepretation. "only" does not mean 'this thing plus some other things'. Only is finite, without anyone or anything else.
From my understanding, Mormons believe that you need more then just faith and love for Jesus to get into heaven. They believe that you need to live a certain way. According to the BIBLE, this isn't true.
So: how can people who believe in just Christ's forgiveness and people who believe in more then that be classified as the same religion? They can't! It's like apples and banana's, folks.
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by Axtech » 7/15/2003, 4:34 pm
Yes, but Narbus is using examples only if everything in the bible is taken literally. Mormans are Christians who don't take it all literally (among other changes). However, their beliefs are dirived directly from the teachings of Christ, just interpreted differently. Therefore, they are Christians.
Really, there should be a different classification for anyone who believes in Christ, but does not necessarily believe that Christ is the only way into heaven. The problem is that "Christian" is used for both people who believe in Christ and those who believe in Christ as the only way into heaven.
If we had two different terms, this discussion would make more sense. I mean, that way you could use evidence from the bible to say why you don't think Mormans are following the bible they way they should be, instead of arguing whether or not they fall under a certain category.
Really, there should be a different classification for anyone who believes in Christ, but does not necessarily believe that Christ is the only way into heaven. The problem is that "Christian" is used for both people who believe in Christ and those who believe in Christ as the only way into heaven.
If we had two different terms, this discussion would make more sense. I mean, that way you could use evidence from the bible to say why you don't think Mormans are following the bible they way they should be, instead of arguing whether or not they fall under a certain category.
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