Q: Why would a Free Market economy never work?

[Narbus]

[mosaik]

[Narbus]

[call me andrew]

[starvingeyes]

why socialism would never work

http://www.econlib.org/library/Mises/msSContents.html

it's been proved economically impossible since 1922.

furthermore, i really don't see what's so wrong with this. yes, it's insensitive, but i hardly believe it's indicative of market failure.

[mosaik]

[Johnny]

It was inevitable that some one would try to make a dollar or two off the war

[mosaik]

yeah... and the us government is #1 on that list.

oh, the hypocrisy.

[thirdhour]

The point is corporations try to make money off of other's suffering. It doesn't matter that this time it's a war, the point is, if it sells they'll use it. That's why consumerism discusts me.

[mosaik]

meh. be upset with the people buying the shit - it's their judgement you don't like.

it's not up to us to tell sony what they can sell.

[thirdhour]

Therefore, why blame governments for their actions? It was the judgement of the people that put them in power anyway.

I don't have the choice to not have advertising thrown in my face everyday. I don't have the choice to not have my education sponsored by Coca-Cola. I don't have the right to be anything but a faceless consumer to corporations.

What about corporations using sweat-shop and child labour to keep an edge on the competition? Sure, i can choose to not buy products from that certain corporation, but what if they lie about it to me? What if there comes a day when all big corporations must use child labour to stay on top? People will buy what is cheapest and in order to keep their products the cheapest, they must do whatever they can. Maybe one day all corporations that don't use child labour will be forced to go bankrupt because they cannot keep their prices low enough. So yes, I am upset with the people who buy it, but corporations aren't exactly doing anything to stop it. At what point do you finally have to tell them it must stop?


I am against senseless buying, and unfortunatly, that disease is running rampant in our society.

[mosaik]

why should it stop?

what's wrong with senseless buying? what's wrong with children working?

as long as nobody has a gun to their head saying "work slave work" then there is no infraction. if the kid isn't happy, he can quit.

what's wrong with your education being sponsored by coke?

[thirdhour]

I have a class right now, but I'll come back with some nice little arguments to spice this convesation up.

[starvingeyes]

the hatred sweatshop labour is widely misplaced and due, in large part, to ignorance of the local economic conditions that mandate it's use.

i remember not so long ago, i saw an episode of 60 minutes where they were profiling a program which helps people in africa immigrate to the united states.

when one of the africans was asked how many hours in a day he wanted to work, he replied "16".

firstly, the people in the countries where this type of labour exists are very poor. ask any one of them if they'd like to have a job, even if it means working in a textiles factory for $1 an hour, 16 hours a day, and 9/10 of them will tell you yes.

secondly, local businesses do not pay well either. it's not like the gap is raiding villages, stealing the children, chaining them up and forcing them to work for pittance while the rest of the people enjoy $6 minimum wage. if the gap were to increase it's wages to the what you would consider an "acceptable" level, it would create serious disruption in the local economy.

thirdly, the labour these people do is unskilled, and widely available. anybody can put shoes or clothing together. bluntly, their labour is not worth very much. they have very limited assets and recognize that taking pretty well whatever they can get for their very low value time is a pretty good deal.

these labour conditions, although poor, are the only way these people can get work. as time goes on, this will lead to some financial stability in the economy and it will eventually grow.

sad though it may be, bottom end, low paying labour is the foundation of all economic growth. if any third world country wants to grow economically, it has to start here.

the gap and other companies like it are helping the people they employ in these countries more then they are hurting them.

[Corey]

[starvingeyes]

[Johnny]

[thirdhour]

[Corey]

[starvingeyes]

q: if you had a job in which the working conditions were average, the pay was ok and you weren't getting fired, would you quit to work in a sweatshop for the gap?

q(2): under what circumstances would you be prepared to take a job in a sweatshop?

a: no
a(2): very bad ones.

the human being is a rational actor. no starving rwandan or whatever would voluntarily go to work in a place which he knows will actually decrease his standard of living. you do not give these people enough credit.

like it or not, working in a sweatshop is the preferrable alternative to not working at all. those people are better off, even if only a little, then they were before the arrival of the gap/.